Ratings versus reviews

[notthatamanda]

One of my books just showed a new review on author central, but when I went to the book page is showing X reviews and X+1 ratings.
X because my number of reviews is low and it is a rough day morale wise.

Is this new, ratings versus reviews? Or did I just somehow miss this for the past 5 years.

[TimothyEllis]

I think ratings is new.

There was a change on the product page last week I think.

I've not seen any ratings yet. Just reviews. But very few of those at the moment too.

[Simon Haynes]

This was mentioned somewhere on WS a week or so back.

I've seen a number of ratings come through - they show at the top of the product page, but aren't included in the count on AMS ads or also-boughts yet.

I'm guessing these new ratings aren't predicated on people spending $50/year with Amazon (maybe). I don't think I've spent $50 this year, and I've already left one rating myself. (When I reached the end of a book in the kindle app on my tablet it just let me click the star rating without going to the trouble of leaving a review.)

I think it's a positive, although I suspect it will drag down average review scores. A) If they don't identify the reviewer on the product page, people can finally vote on how they really feel about a book. B) however, people will now say how they really feel about a book. And C) authors won't be able to comment on ratings, so people will feel more inclined to leave low scores. Ie. say how they really feel about a book.

[Bill Hiatt]

This was mentioned somewhere on WS a week or so back.

I've seen a number of ratings come through - they show at the top of the product page, but aren't included in the count on AMS ads or also-boughts yet.

I'm guessing these new ratings aren't predicated on people spending $50/year with Amazon (maybe). I don't think I've spent $50 this year, and I've already left one rating myself. (When I reached the end of a book in the kindle app on my tablet it just let me click the star rating without going to the trouble of leaving a review.)

I think it's a positive, although I suspect it will drag down average review scores. A) If they don't identify the reviewer on the product page, people can finally vote on how they really feel about a book. B) however, people will now say how they really feel about a book. And C) authors won't be able to comment on ratings, so people will feel more inclined to leave low scores. Ie. say how they really feel about a book.

Or trolls will be more encouraged to leave drive-by ones without having actually the book. Moreover, without any reasoning provided, customers won't be able to interpret ratings. I'm not seeing it as a positive. (Customers who wanted to leave a review anonymously have always been free to do so--hence, the number of reviews from Amazon Customer. And wise authors have stayed away from commenting on reviews for years.)

Amazon tried this once before. In that case, we thought the source might be ratings posted via Kindle, which could be done without leaving a review. It lasted a very brief time before disappearing. Perhaps the source is different this time, perhaps not. But I'm not seeing a way on the product page to just leave a rating, only to post a review.

Amazon is now calling the star counts ratings, but every single one of my books has the same number as it had when they were called reviews. And it does sometimes take a while for new reviews to show. Has anyone actually seen any evidence that non-review ratings are becoming part of the system?

Oh, never mind. If I'm reading Simon's comment correctly, he has seen some.

[Simon Haynes]

Yes, I have several books with more ratings than reviews. I know in the past some reviews appeared and disappeared, but I right now have one book with 125 ratings and only 117 reviews.

And, as stated above, when I reach the end of a title on the kindle app now, I can click a star rating and it's submitted without the need to write a review.

[notthatamanda]

I don't know how it will play out but I have seen people leave reviews that are kind of like:

***** I really loved this book but I am not a writer but it has to be so long for the review to take so I hope it's long enough now.

[JRTomlin]

I have some reviews that are nothing but a rant about having to write so many words so people who leave those will be happy. So far, I can't see that ratings have hurt but I haven't figured out how to see how the star count on ratings compares to the star count on reviews either.

[Jeff Tanyard]

I approve of this change.  If it makes it easier for "drive-by trolls" to leave 1-star ratings, then it will also make it easier for fans to leave 5-star ratings.  Over a long enough time, I suspect the star average will be a wash, but the greater number of overall ratings/reviews will provide more social proof than the lesser number of only-reviews would.

The real question is whether book promotion services will alter their review requirements to include ratings.  Newsletters often require X number of reviews on Amazon.com with Y star average.  Will they accept ratings, too, or will they stick to reviews only?

[Bill Hiatt]

Yes, I have several books with more ratings than reviews. I know in the past some reviews appeared and disappeared, but I right now have one book with 125 ratings and only 117 reviews.

And, as stated above, when I reach the end of a title on the kindle app now, I can click a star rating and it's submitted without the need to write a review.

Ratings have been submittable from the Kindle app for a long time now. I haven't actually ever left one that way, but I did test a couple of times, and I would have been able to submit without writing a review.

I experimented yesterday with something I was going to leave a review on, anyway, and it appears I could have submitted a rating only right on Amazon.

[Bill Hiatt]

I approve of this change.  If it makes it easier for "drive-by trolls" to leave 1-star ratings, then it will also make it easier for fans to leave 5-star ratings.  Over a long enough time, I suspect the star average will be a wash, but the greater number of overall ratings/reviews will provide more social proof than the lesser number of only-reviews would.

The real question is whether book promotion services will alter their review requirements to include ratings.  Newsletters often require X number of reviews on Amazon.com with Y star average.  Will they accept ratings, too, or will they stick to reviews only?

Well, we'll have to see. Admittedly, there's no way to know what allowing ratings only will affect the star average. The one time Amazon did this before, however, there were a lot of people complaining that the rating-only ratings were lower than those given by reviewers. In the old days, when I used to visit Goodreads, I also noticed that my average on the rating-only ratings was much lower than on the review-based ratings. That's not exactly a ton of data, though.

As far as what book promotion services will do, I suspect whatever is the least work for them. The previous Amazon attempt at this, if I remember correctly, showed two separate star averages, at least at one point. If they're combined, I doubt most companies are going to check the number of ratings against the number of reviews and then do the math to produce a review-only average. If Amazon hands them one, however, they'll probably use it.

[Simon Haynes]

I was going to compare this with goodreads, but on that site even simple star ratings show the 'reviewer's' name and photo alongside.

If this new amazon setup is truly anon, I'd expect some downward adjustment to the average ranking, and also it seems to be a whole new area for bad actors to exploit. Obviously Amazon still know who the people leaving these ratings, and I guess if someone tries to leave 10 or 20 per day there's going to be consequences. But maybe they're just rating all their favourite books?

Wonder whether you have to own a copy on Amazon to rate it though? That would make sense.

[Bill Hiatt]

I was going to compare this with goodreads, but on that site even simple star ratings show the 'reviewer's' name and photo alongside.

If this new amazon setup is truly anon, I'd expect some downward adjustment to the average ranking, and also it seems to be a whole new area for bad actors to exploit. Obviously Amazon still know who the people leaving these ratings, and I guess if someone tries to leave 10 or 20 per day there's going to be consequences. But maybe they're just rating all their favourite books?

Wonder whether you have to own a copy on Amazon to rate it though? That would make sense.

In my experiment (which was with a DVD, not a book), Amazon would have let me rate even though I bought the DVD elsewhere. So I'd say no, you don't have to own a copy, the same as with reviews.

At least, I think it would have let me rate. As soon as I filled in the start rating, the submit button looked active. Since I intended to leave a review, I didn't actually click it at that point.

Never mind! I should have checked more thoroughly. I just checked using another product. Though the submit button looks active, clicking it without including a review and a title isn't allowed. That means the ratings are coming, just as you indicated, when people review from the Kindle app, not directly on Amazon. Obviously, if they're reading on the Kindle app, the book would probably have come from Amazon.

For the record, though, reviews can be left anonymously (or at least pseudonymously) on Amazon already. When leaving a review, I can edit my customer name to make it whatever I want.

[LilyBLily]

If I come to the end of a book I like on my Kindle, I give it a star rating. I may or may not ever get around to writing a review, but at least the author gets some positive feedback that Amazon presumably will use to make that author's books more visible.

[alhawke]

Happened to me too. I wasn't sure if it was an error but it was a high star so I didn't mind. 
As long as they are 4 or 5s, I'm good with it. Just hoping for no 1s

[Simon Haynes]

My problem is that I read on my tablet in bed, down the other end of the house. It's out of wifi range (deliberately so), and therefore when I try to give a star rating the app tells me I'm not online. Shame amazon doesn't cache it, but I'm not getting up and walking to the router at 4am to click on a rating.

As for my real Kindle, it's a Mk II which hasn't been connected to the internet since about 2010.

[YouMeWe]

They're all over the place lately.

My books have 3 different numbers on the same page: 'ratings' at the top, 'reviews' at the bottom, and a lag on the series bar. Can't wait to see which one that eventually goes with. The anticipation is killing me. 

[LeonardDHilleyII]

Yes, I have several books with more ratings than reviews. I know in the past some reviews appeared and disappeared, but I right now have one book with 125 ratings and only 117 reviews.

And, as stated above, when I reach the end of a title on the kindle app now, I can click a star rating and it's submitted without the need to write a review.

^^ I've noticed this as well.