Author Topic: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...  (Read 25838 times)

R. C.

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Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« on: July 31, 2025, 11:51:22 PM »
A quick interwebs search indicates this is becoming a thing. Has anyone else received this notice from the 'Zon?

"During a quality assurance review of your catalog, we found that your book(s) is resulting in a disappointing customer experience. Indicators of a poor customer experience may include customer refunds and negative feedback. As a result, the following book(s) has been removed from sale on Amazon:"

Three ebooks are gone!  Published in 2022, over 200 book one sales, a 3.5 rating, and gone!

They took down the ebook and left the print versions.

I've asked for help understanding via email.

R.C.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2025, 02:02:28 AM by R. C. »
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2025, 12:21:21 AM »
My question is, were the books on the Quality control Dashboard and you never made the changes to them requested?

Amazon takes a dim view of authors who don't fix their goofs when they get pointed out to them.

And that's the sort of message they'd send about that.

If the same errors kept being pointed out, and the dashboard was being ignored, they might eventually hit a threshold where they pull the book.

What's the status say on the eBook versions?

Can you actually get back into them to modify them?

Were they unpublished or blocked?
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R. C.

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2025, 12:29:36 AM »
My question is, were the books on the Quality control Dashboard and you never made the changes to them requested?
...
Were they unpublished or blocked?

The dashboard was clear (as far as I know) :

Review 0 items in 0 books
Make corrections 0 items in 0 books
Under review by Amazon 0 items in 0 books
Resolved 80 items in 11 books

Blocked - Which means, I can't check the reviews for possible issues.


R.C.
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2025, 12:37:03 AM »
My question is, were the books on the Quality control Dashboard and you never made the changes to them requested?
...
Were they unpublished or blocked?

The dashboard was clear (as far as I know) :

Review 0 items in 0 books
Make corrections 0 items in 0 books
Under review by Amazon 0 items in 0 books
Resolved 80 items in 11 books

Blocked - Which means, I can't check the reviews for possible issues.

When they were blocked, they were probably removed from the Dashboard as well. When was the last time you looked at it?

Blocked is bad. That means the eBook was deemed not wanted back in the store.

You need to appeal that immediately.

It reeks of a bot doing the wrong thing based on an incorrect keyword association.

See what the reply says, but don't expect to get anything useful from it.

Was there anything contentious in them? Anything the woke crowd would complain about?
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2025, 12:37:50 AM »
Where is the Quality Control Dashboard?  I'm trying to check my books and don't see anything like that.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2025, 12:40:32 AM »
Where is the Quality Control Dashboard?  I'm trying to check my books and don't see anything like that.

Top of the Dashboard itself. But it's just a text thing with a link on it. Easy to miss. If you have something on it that needs attention, it gets a bigger message.
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2025, 12:42:39 AM »
Where is the Quality Control Dashboard?  I'm trying to check my books and don't see anything like that.

Top of the Dashboard itself. But it's just a text thing with a link on it. Easy to miss. If you have something on it that needs attention, it gets a bigger message.

Is it called "Quality Control"?  I'm not seeing any kind of link, text or otherwise, that looks even remotely like Quality or Control.
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R. C.

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2025, 12:43:10 AM »
Where is the Quality Control Dashboard?  I'm trying to check my books and don't see anything like that.

Go to your bookshelf, the link is at the top.

R.C.
 
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R. C.

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2025, 12:46:40 AM »
...
See what the reply says, but don't expect to get anything useful from it.

Was there anything contentious in them? Anything the woke crowd would complain about?

I sent an email and asked, politely, for help.

"Anything the woke crowd would complain about?"  Oh, yeah. When I published, I remember thinking this will get some responses.

Graphic combat scene, murder, abuse (mulitple kinds), twist ending.

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TimothyEllis

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2025, 12:47:03 AM »
This:

Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2025, 12:48:56 AM »
This:

That doesn't show up on mine at all.

I have the "Royalty Rates . . ." and "Submissions are open . . ." and then it goes to "Create.  Manage.  Publish."
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2025, 12:50:19 AM »
This:

That doesn't show up on mine at all.

You can't have had anything added to it yet.
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2025, 12:51:18 AM »
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2025, 01:06:57 AM »
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2025, 02:00:18 AM »
...
See what the reply says, but don't expect to get anything useful from it.

Was there anything contentious in them? Anything the woke crowd would complain about?

I sent an email and asked, politely, for help.

"Anything the woke crowd would complain about?"  Oh, yeah. When I published, I remember thinking this will get some responses.

Graphic combat scene, murder, abuse (mulitple kinds), twist ending.

R.C.

But you said the paperback(s) is still up, right?  If so, my guess is that it would not be content related or both would have been taken down.

So, best guess would be either a technical issue with the eBook files or a bot error.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 
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R. C.

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2025, 02:03:17 AM »
UPDATE: WOWOWOWOWOWOW!

The email below just arrived:

The book is live!

F'ing BOTs...

----

"Hello,

Thank you for your email.

After further review, we determined that the following book complies with our guidelines:

B0CFFXBRZD
Marble Grove: A Detective Mystery with a Contemporary Vibe

Your book will soon be available on the Amazon Store and no further action is required from you on this matter.

Regards,

Amazon KDP

<Name redacted>
Amazon Content Review Team

------

R.C.
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2025, 02:05:33 AM »
a technical issue with the eBook files

Did they have the bookmarked contents?

I got reminded at one point to put them in on a few books, and updated all of mine at the time.

If yours didn't have them, a bot may have overreacted on that.

Just a thought.

After further review, we determined that the following book complies with our guidelines:

That suggests a bot misfire.

But once it's live again, check everything about it.

The problem with bots is that after something is restored, the bots can still do it again.
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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R. C.

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2025, 02:22:33 AM »
Checking again - everything looks tight.  New blurb with a disclaimer.

-----

A single shot. No residue. No DNA. Just a body?and a town full of secrets.

Detective Carin Trimble thought landing a high-profile murder case would prove she?s more than just a small-town cop. But in Marble Grove, truth is as rare as justice, and everyone?s hiding something.

As Carin digs deeper, she?s haunted by her own demons?and surrounded by liars, ghosts, and a past the town refuses to bury. The closer she gets to the truth, the further she falls into a darkness that might swallow her whole.

Welcome to Marble Grove. Where murder is just the beginning.

Graphic crime, mental struggle, and twist endings?The Carin Trimble Mysteries go where cozy won?t.

-----

R.C.
 

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2025, 02:56:05 AM »
This is the problem with over-reliance on algorithms or bots or AI or whatever.  A book(s) gets flagged and removed by an automated process that is in error and then the human author has to take steps to get the book restored.

It's stupid.  The whole situation is stupid.

And, of course, Amazon has little to no impetus to fix the problem because if some books get removed from sale by accident, they still have millions more available on their site.  So, they continue to save money by using bots instead of human reviewers and don't care if innocent authors lose income as a result of automated errors.

I doubt AI will make things better unless you have your own AI agent that can converse with Amazon's AI to say, hey, are you stupid or what?
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alhawke

Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2025, 03:43:13 AM »
So what's the "disappointing customer experience..." A book return? Pretty concerning that our books can now be taken down at will without warning on Amazon.

I'm not aware of any requirement for a disclaimer on our books on Zon. In fact, I think disclaimers set off the algos more. I've been getting rid of them because my romance fantasy novels/audios have being wrongly classified by the computer algos under erotica in the past, pretty sure because of those disclaimers.
 
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Hopscotch

Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2025, 04:22:20 AM »
Now this is puzzling:  My Quality Notifications reports two recent books w/issues "resolved" tho' I didn't know about the issues so never did anything to resolve them.
 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2025, 07:03:04 AM »
Glad you got it resolved, R.C.   :cheers
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R. C.

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2025, 09:01:43 AM »
Now this is puzzling:  My Quality Notifications reports two recent books w/issues "resolved" tho' I didn't know about the issues so never did anything to resolve them.

I've had the same experience.  I think, without proof, when you upload a book and "ignore" spelling issues it considers it "resolved."

R.C.
 
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2025, 11:12:19 AM »
Now this is puzzling:  My Quality Notifications reports two recent books w/issues "resolved" tho' I didn't know about the issues so never did anything to resolve them.

I've had the same experience.  I think, without proof, when you upload a book and "ignore" spelling issues it considers it "resolved."

More likely the report was withdrawn by the person who made it. Or the bots re-flag it because it's not actually a problem.

Like they're objecting to non-US spelling or something, which is not a valid complaint.

I had the opposite recently. One of my custom words was flagged as a spelling error, and it took me 5 repeats of 'This is not a problem' to get them to accept it. Someone thought hollo should be holo, but I've used hollo across 90 odd books so far, so changing it for 1 book was not happening.

Quite a few of the things complained about are not what I call an issue. So likely what you saw was subsequently determined automatically to not be a real issue.
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2025, 10:55:32 PM »
Quote
Anything the woke crowd would complain about?

Just for the record, both ends of the spectrum have their censorship moments. Even as we speak, books are being removed from school libraries and classrooms, and outside the academic context, books are getting bad reviews and being hounded by social media mobs over things some part of the MAGA crowd finds distasteful.

To the main subject, yes, it's terrible that decisions like this are presumably made by bots. This particular one got reversed quickly, which is good. But such blunders are, at the very least, stress producing.

I do glance at the KDP dashboard every day just to make sure something new hasn't landed in the quality issues area. That's probably a wise practice going forward. As for returns, a book would probably have to have a relatively large number to trigger some kind of block. If one were to see an unusual pattern, it would probably be good to check the book, just in case something has gone haywire. Serial returners aside, I've normally had a very small percentage of books returned. Even when I get a terrible review, I usually see no comparable return. If that trend changed, I'd check right away. (Amazon seems to have curtailed serial returning pretty effectively.

 


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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2025, 12:02:15 AM »
Books being removed from school libraries and classrooms is not the same as books being banned or censored.  Not all books are appropriate for children.  Also, school libraries tend to be a lot smaller than general libraries.  It makes sense for there to be more selectivity as to what books go there.  There were plenty of books absent from my school library when I was in school.  No one whined about it.  You just went to the regular library or a local bookstore.  No one expected a school library to carry every book imaginable.
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2025, 12:29:40 AM »
As I mentioned, it's far more than just in academic situations.

In any case, appropriateness is a valid concern. But the best qualified people to address that concern are educational professionals like librarians and English teachers. That's why the American Library Association is in favor of selection but not censorship. They are, in fact, different things. Interestingly, most people advocating the removal of particular books from schools have not actually read the books they want to censor. They are reacting to what (potentially inaccurate) things they've heard or (potentially out-of-context) excerpts that they've read.


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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2025, 06:21:31 AM »
In any case, appropriateness is a valid concern. But the best qualified people to address that concern are educational professionals like librarians and English teachers.

According to a study conducted around 2022, about 1 in 10 students experience some form of educator sexual misconduct by the time they graduate high school.  Specifically, the study found about 11.7% of students reported sexual misconduct by educators, which was an increase from the 9.6% estimated in the 2004 study which means things have gotten worse, not better.

So, no, I do not believe that the best qualified people to address the appropriateness of books for children are educators or librarians.

Additionally, while teachers aren't as far to the left as some conservative media would have one believe, they do tend to be roughly 10% more left of center than the general population which means they are not fully representative of the populations they serve.

The best qualified people to address the appropriateness of book for children are the parents.
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Lorri Moulton

Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2025, 07:37:17 AM »
Some authors were discussing this problem a few months ago due to readers paying for books, returning them, and 'creating' reasons they didn't want to pay.  Many watched entire series read and returned a book at a time. 

Supposedly, this was going to be addressed...don't know if it has anything to do with this situation.


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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2025, 02:07:57 AM »
In any case, appropriateness is a valid concern. But the best qualified people to address that concern are educational professionals like librarians and English teachers.

According to a study conducted around 2022, about 1 in 10 students experience some form of educator sexual misconduct by the time they graduate high school.  Specifically, the study found about 11.7% of students reported sexual misconduct by educators, which was an increase from the 9.6% estimated in the 2004 study which means things have gotten worse, not better.

So, no, I do not believe that the best qualified people to address the appropriateness of books for children are educators or librarians.

Additionally, while teachers aren't as far to the left as some conservative media would have one believe, they do tend to be roughly 10% more left of center than the general population which means they are not fully representative of the populations they serve.

The best qualified people to address the appropriateness of book for children are the parents.
Without being able to examine the methodology of the two studies, it's difficult to judge the accuracy of the conclusions. It is worth noting that the vast majority of the misconduct took the form of sexual comments. Depending on how the information was collected and whether or not the study used a very specific definition of sexual comment, how much time had passed since the alleged comment, whether or not the context of the comment was clear, etc. all make a difference.

I'm not suggesting that sexual comments are ever appropriate in the classroom. I am suggesting that some adolescents will find innuendo where none was intended, that eyewitness accounts become less accurate over time, and that "sexual comment" could conceivably be applied to something like a discussion of adultery in Scarlet Letter--the subject matter is sexual, after all.

I'm not just hair-splitting here. As a union rep, I was involved in a number of student complaints against teachers. Fortunately, none of them were sexual, but they do illustrate the problems with students complaints in general. Often, students cited statements or behavior that closer investigation revealed were partially or wholly inaccurate. My favorite example is one in which a teacher tapped a student with a rolled piece of paper to get her attention. The student claimed that the teacher had hit her. Every single student in the classroom said something like, "No, he just tapped her. There was no hitting." The teacher was rightly exonerated. But had this student been participating in a study of physical violence in the classroom, she would have reported being hit. Uninvestigated allegations may not be the best data on which to draw conclusions. The passage of time can change recollections, and sometimes, student complaints are ways of shifting responsibility for a problem from the student to the teacher. (To be fair, though, sexual complaints don't usually come from the latter cause. But memory can play tricks on all of us.)

But in any case, it sounds as if you're distrusting all teachers because a small minority may have behaved inappropriately. It's possible to indict parents in the same way. For instance, the National Children's Alliance reports that over half a million children are the victims of abuse--and 77% of those are abused by parents or guardians. https://www.nationalchildrensalliance.org/media-room/national-statistics-on-child-abuse/

That's a horrible statistic. But it shouldn't cause us to lose sight of the fact that most parents are not abusers, any more than most teachers are sexually inappropriate in the classroom.

As far as political lean is concerned, here's what the Heritage Foundation (a conservative organization) had to say:
Quote
A nationally representative survey of K?12 teachers does not support the idea that America?s public school teachers are radical activists, although conservative and moderate parents may find it disconcerting that nearly six of 10 teachers believe that white supremacy is a major problem in the United States. The survey results indicate that, while teachers tend to be somewhat left of center on many topics, their responses were not particularly close to positions held by the average liberal. Overall, the results could be welcome news for parents who are concerned about the growing influence of progressive ideology in public schools.

In looking at teacher influence on curriculum, it's important to remember that curriculum in K-12 schools is not controlled separately by each individual teacher. Rather, curricular decisions are made by grade level and/or department and are usually approved by local school boards. In fact, major decisions are normally controlled by national and state standards, as well as local school board policies. Teachers may have considerable autonomy in how they implement the curriculum, but usually not in terms of what the curriculum is or what texts and other instructional materials are used to support it. So when I talk about educators making choices, I'm talking about group decisions made based on consistent guidelines.

In contrast, censorship attempts are very often made by small groups of parents whose opinions may or may not be representative of the parents as a whole. It's one thing for parents to advocate for alternative instructional materials for their students. But all too often, the thrust is making those choices for all students. And even if one accepts the premise that liberal indoctrination is happening now, the censors seem to want instead conservative indoctrination. Ideally, what schools should be doing is developing student intellectual abilities so that they will be able to make their own decisions when they reach adulthood. Teachers should give students the tools to evaluate different perspectives without being an advocate for any of them. (My students were sometimes frustrated because they couldn't get information like my party affiliation out of me. And when I had to play devil's advocate to balance a discussion, I made what I was doing clear.) If instead are preparing students to be decision makers, parents want hardcore indoctrination 24/7, they are welcome to home-school their kids.

On a final note, we should probably make some differentiation between really young students and teenagers. the former are more impressionable. The latter are usually pretty set in their ways. I counted myself lucky if I could get them to do their homework. The idea that I could change their politics, their religion, their sexual preference or their gender identity would be laughable in most cases.


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LilyBLily

Re: Holy Moly - Didn't know this was a thing...
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2025, 06:53:27 AM »
Thanks, Bill, for your reasoned response, as always with excellent research to back it up.


 
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