Reusing ISBNs

[guest78]

Is there any way around reusing an ISBN in Bowker?

[Bill Hiatt]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. ISBNs can't be reused. Once one is tied to a particular title, it can't be reused for a different book (and certain variables, like trim size, also stick). Even for a different format, you'd need a different ISBN.

If you want to avoid using the same ISBN on a book, you can publish a different edition. For instance, if you started out with a free CS or KDP ISBN and later wanted your own so that you could use your own imprint name, you can do that by publishing a different edition.

[guest78]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. ISBNs can't be reused. Once one is tied to a particular title, it can't be reused for a different book (and certain variables, like trim size, also stick). Even for a different format, you'd need a different ISBN.

If you want to avoid using the same ISBN on a book, you can publish a different edition. For instance, if you started out with a free CS or KDP ISBN and later wanted your own so that you could use your own imprint name, you can do that by publishing a different edition.

Yeah, that was pretty much what I was asking. I was just looking at my account and saw all the unpublished books listed and felt stupid for adding isbns to ebooks. Lesson learned. I was trying to save myself 300 bucks. *sigh* Oh well.

[Al Stevens]

The ISBN associates the title, publisher and format. Change any of them and, if you want an ISBN associated with the work, you must assign it a new ISBN. Edition is treated as part of the title in this respect.

[Bill Hiatt]

Just for the record, if you ever go wide, some wide outlets want an ISBN on ebooks. Unfortunately, each format requires a different ISBN, and most of the wide outlets are dealing with EPUB, so if you attached an ISBN to a MOBI, like for Amazon, then that wouldn't do you any good.

Wait! Did you say unpublished? It sounds as if an ISBN on a book that never got published might be reassignable. Bowker says this (emphasis mine):

Can an ISBN be reused?
No, once a title is published with an ISBN on it, the ISBN can never be used again. Even if a title goes out of print, the ISBN cannot be reused since the title continues to be catalogued by libraries and traded by used booksellers.

https://www.isbn.org/faqs_ownership_rights

If you have an ISBN associated with an unpublished ebook, it sounds as if it would be worth asking Bowker about reassigning it.

[RPatton]

Just for the record, if you ever go wide, some wide outlets want an ISBN on ebooks. Unfortunately, each format requires a different ISBN, and most of the wide outlets are dealing with EPUB, so if you attached an ISBN to a MOBI, like for Amazon, then that wouldn't do you any good.

Wait! Did you say unpublished? It sounds as if an ISBN on a book that never got published might be reassignable. Bowker says this (emphasis mine):

Can an ISBN be reused?
No, once a title is published with an ISBN on it, the ISBN can never be used again. Even if a title goes out of print, the ISBN cannot be reused since the title continues to be catalogued by libraries and traded by used booksellers.

https://www.isbn.org/faqs_ownership_rights

If you have an ISBN associated with an unpublished ebook, it sounds as if it would be worth asking Bowker about reassigning it.

When I spoke with someone at Bowker about this, they said an ebook was an ebook was an ebook, regardless if epub or mobi and didn't require a different ISBN for what was basically the same version.

I'm not sure where the mobi/epub requiring two different ISBNs came about, but it from Bowker's mouth, it's not necessary. If you look at the copyright of any trad pubbed book, you'll see two ISBNs, one for ebook and one for print (possibly 3 if there's a hardcover).

[guest78]

Just for the record, if you ever go wide, some wide outlets want an ISBN on ebooks. Unfortunately, each format requires a different ISBN, and most of the wide outlets are dealing with EPUB, so if you attached an ISBN to a MOBI, like for Amazon, then that wouldn't do you any good.

Wait! Did you say unpublished? It sounds as if an ISBN on a book that never got published might be reassignable. Bowker says this (emphasis mine):

Can an ISBN be reused?
No, once a title is published with an ISBN on it, the ISBN can never be used again. Even if a title goes out of print, the ISBN cannot be reused since the title continues to be catalogued by libraries and traded by used booksellers.

https://www.isbn.org/faqs_ownership_rights

If you have an ISBN associated with an unpublished ebook, it sounds as if it would be worth asking Bowker about reassigning it.

I'll reach out to them, but I won't hold my breath. lol

[Bill Hiatt]

Just for the record, if you ever go wide, some wide outlets want an ISBN on ebooks. Unfortunately, each format requires a different ISBN, and most of the wide outlets are dealing with EPUB, so if you attached an ISBN to a MOBI, like for Amazon, then that wouldn't do you any good.

Wait! Did you say unpublished? It sounds as if an ISBN on a book that never got published might be reassignable. Bowker says this (emphasis mine):

Can an ISBN be reused?
No, once a title is published with an ISBN on it, the ISBN can never be used again. Even if a title goes out of print, the ISBN cannot be reused since the title continues to be catalogued by libraries and traded by used booksellers.

https://www.isbn.org/faqs_ownership_rights

If you have an ISBN associated with an unpublished ebook, it sounds as if it would be worth asking Bowker about reassigning it.

When I spoke with someone at Bowker about this, they said an ebook was an ebook was an ebook, regardless if epub or mobi and didn't require a different ISBN for what was basically the same version.

I'm not sure where the mobi/epub requiring two different ISBNs came about, but it from Bowker's mouth, it's not necessary. If you look at the copyright of any trad pubbed book, you'll see two ISBNs, one for ebook and one for print (possibly 3 if there's a hardcover).

Ah, interesting! I guess that was just more internet misinformation. That said, in the old days when I was putting ISBN numbers on my Amazon ebooks, D2D wanted to assign a different ISBN to the ones it was distributing. That may be why I didn't question that statement when I saw it.

[bardsandsages]

When I spoke with someone at Bowker about this, they said an ebook was an ebook was an ebook, regardless if epub or mobi and didn't require a different ISBN for what was basically the same version.

Without knowing the exact verbiage of your initial question, I would worry about the accuracy of this statement. They probably meant it doesn't matter which specific version you were selling because they are both ebooks. Not that you can SIMULTANEOUSLY distribute an epub AND a mobi through the same channel with one ISBN. That doesn't make sense based on how wholesale distribution works.

Let's backtrack for a moment and remember the purpose of an ISBN. The ISBN is an identifier used by retailers to make sure they are ordering the correct version of a book. It is essentially a "social security number" for a specific format, so that the retailer knows they are getting the correct version. This is particularly important in brick and mortar. If you think you are ordering the hardcover edition of a book, you don't want a shipment of mass market paperbacks showing up.

But it is also important with ebooks. Very few retailers use the mobi format, because it is an Amazon proprietary format only readable on the Kindle or through the Kindle app. The Apple store doesn't want mobi ebooks. They want epub.

Now the entire conversation is merely academic if you are using Draft2Digital or Smashwords to distribute, because they only distribute the ebook versions. Ingram also only distributes epub. So if you use the ISBN for your mobi version on Amazon and then use the ISBN with D2D or Smashwords or Ingram to distribute your epub, nobody is going to know.

But let's say you are working with a third-party wholesaler (not just an Aggregator). That wholesaler is going to "stock" your different ebook formats in the event a company wants to sell a specific format. So you will have your book listed multiple times in their system under the different formats. Just like a print book wholesaler would have the hardcover, trade paperback, and mass market paperback versions all listed separately.

If they are catering to Amazon customers, for example, they may only want mobi versions of the book. But most companies are going to want the epub, because epub is the current standard for ebooks. By having the same ISBN for both versions, you create the risk of the retailer getting the wrong version of the ebook.

[RPatton]

When I spoke with someone at Bowker about this, they said an ebook was an ebook was an ebook, regardless if epub or mobi and didn't require a different ISBN for what was basically the same version.

Without knowing the exact verbiage of your initial question, I would worry about the accuracy of this statement. They probably meant it doesn't matter which specific version you were selling because they are both ebooks. Not that you can SIMULTANEOUSLY distribute an epub AND a mobi through the same channel with one ISBN. That doesn't make sense based on how wholesale distribution works.

The exact verbiage was...

If I assign an ISBN to an ebook that is sold as an epub on most online stores, do I need to assign a different (and unique) ISBN to an ebook sold as a mobi on Amazon.

Response back was.
No. The same ISBN can be used for an ebook sold on Amazon as any other bookstore. Ebooks sold on Amazon do not need a separate ISBN.

I understand what you are saying, however I recommend you take a look at the ISBNs for any traditionally published book. They do not have separate ISBNs for books sold on Amazon as for those sold on other stores.

If people want to waste their money giving their book sold on Amazon a unique ISBN, that's on them. However, it's not at all necessary according to Bowker.

[Speaker to Animals]

On Mobi/Epub/etc Bowker originally wanted a separate ISBN for every version--not just mobi/epub but different versions of copy protection for different epub versions. However, ISBNs serve no purpose whatsoever for ebooks because they are all sold in walled gardens--nobody is ordering one from their local retailer--so people were generally reusing them for both mobi/epub etc. and Bowker figured "hey, if we can dupe these rubes into wasting their money on an ISBN, maybe we shouldn't push it. Let them use one for all the ebook versions."

[notthatamanda]

I've been reading up on this and I think for my new book I will need:
1 ISBN for ebook (various formats)
1 for hardcover
1 for paperback

Am I understanding that correctly? 

Tangent question - what about audible?  Does that require a separate ISBN number?  I hope to be able to afford audible, someday.

Thanks for the help, Amanda

[RPatton]

I've been reading up on this and I think for my new book I will need:
1 ISBN for ebook (various formats)
1 for hardcover
1 for paperback

Am I understanding that correctly? 

Tangent question - what about audible?  Does that require a separate ISBN number?  I hope to be able to afford audible, someday.

Thanks for the help, Amanda

Ebook (1 ISBN works for all storefronts, epub and Mobi) - Optional.
Paperback (1 ISBN for each trim size if you have different trims)
Hard cover (1 ISBN)
Audio (1 ISBN), although I don't believe Audible requires it.

[notthatamanda]

Thank you RPatton.  I read some of your posts on ISBNs at the forum that shall not be named, so thank you for those as well.

[Simon Haynes]

Just for the record, if you ever go wide, some wide outlets want an ISBN on ebooks. Unfortunately, each format requires a different ISBN, and most of the wide outlets are dealing with EPUB, so if you attached an ISBN to a MOBI, like for Amazon, then that wouldn't do you any good.

If you publish wide via Smashwords (and handle Kobo, KDP and Google Play yourself), you will never need an ISBN. Smashwords will give you a free isbn.

If you do paperbacks through KDP print, likewise.

[notthatamanda]

If you publish wide via Smashwords (and handle Kobo, KDP and Google Play yourself), you will never need an ISBN. Smashwords will give you a free isbn.

If you do paperbacks through KDP print, likewise.

Thanks, I'm trying to get this Ingram Spark thing going, hopefully without having a stroke or coming down with hives.   So far so good, but I've got a ways to go yet. 

[Dormouse]

On Mobi/Epub/etc Bowker originally wanted a separate ISBN for every version--not just mobi/epub but different versions of copy protection for different epub versions.

I don't think Bowker had a choice on this. The ebook formats are chosen by the walled garden and not the publisher, and can be changed. Publishers do the upload, the stores decide the format they will use for download.