Is KDP Select worth it for new writers?

[wearywanderer64]

My books (I'm still writing the second one) are Scottish, hardboiled fiction. Has anybody had success in this genre on KDP Select? What genre does best?

[VanessaC]

Not my genre at all, but my impression is that KU success or not can be genre dependent, but not always. Everything from romance to thrillers to crime to fantasy (which I write) can do well in KU, and can also do well wide.

I am still new to this, and in KU, and have been from the start, for a bunch of reasons, partly because it was simply easier to get to grips with one platform to start with.

I've heard a few very successful authors commenting recently that, for a new author, KU can make sense at least for the initial 90 days to test the waters - you get the potential of extra visibility and it lets you get to grips with the biggest bookselling platform at low risk. 

It's not a "forever" decision, of course. That's the beauty of being indie - we can chop and change and experiment to see what works.

Best of luck.

[Denise]

I struggled with this, but now I think the answer is clear.

KDP select is the only platform where readers can try your writing for no cost/risk free and you still get paid. I know there's a cost for the reader, but trying your book doesn't cost them anything extra.

KDP select has readers who read a lot, who read indie, and who are willing to try new authors, which is exactly our audience (regardless of genre).

I know that some say that being wide gives you more stability, but I think it's hogwash. If you're stable, with a good following, maybe you can go wide because you'll depend less on being discovered by new adventurous readers and depend less on visibility on Amazon. But it's not being wide that causes the stability, but the other way around.

[wearywanderer64]

Seems all positive so far.

[Bill Hiatt]

On balance, my reaction is positive as well, but I will add that your mileage may vary. I've read a lot of experiences on KU and wide, and I have noticed that some people reported doing better wide.

I think the key is experimentation. You can't really know what works best for you as an author without trying both approaches. That said, as a new author, it would probably make sense for you to try KU first.

I have tried both, and my two wide trials (for several months each) were not dramatic successes, to say the least. I typically make more in KU in one month than I made wide in a year. That's still true even with some decline in KU pages read. (I haven't had a new release in a while, and I haven't promoted much since my last new release.)

Although I mostly agree with Denise about the stability argument, the people who make it have a point about Amazon being an erratic business partner. Consequently, now that I have enough books, I'm hedging my bets. I have started a series wide and will leave it there. (It only sells during specific promos so far.) It's urban fantasy, but I've also moved my education titles wide because they weren't doing much in KU, anyway. The long-term strategy is to build a wide presence while retaining a KU presence. The series that do well in KU will stay in KU. The one (and any subsequent ones I decide try wide) will stay wide. The one thing you want to avoid is jumping back and forth too much with the same book or series. That tends to frustrate potential readers.

[LilyBLily]

My higher priced books are all wide and will stay wide. They only sell a copy here or there wide. They do a tiny bit better if I do a specific promotion. Meanwhile, those same titles sell every day on Amazon with the help of Amazon ads.

My series books are all in KU, where they pick up page reads daily and the buy-in to try them is zero. Also bolstered by Amazon ads.

As Bill says, experiment. If you publish a book or series wide, advertise it. If you put it in KU, advertise it. Make the first book in a series less expensive than the next one. What that price may be is up to you. Some people do permafree; others do $0.99, and still others do $2.99 or other prices with the next books in the series much higher. Do temporary price drops in KU with a Kindle Countdown. See what happens. Every marketing story is unique.

[PJ Post]

For those of you in KU, how many promotions, and especially, how much in ad spends are required; say for launch, and then for maintenance? How about as a percentage of sales? And I'm not trying to put anyone on the spot, but are you earning fun money, car payment money or serious business income. I'm not judging, it's just that from what I've seen, the publishers that are earning significant incomes are also investing thousands a month in AMS and Facebook ads.

The pay for play system seems to be heavily weighted against smaller ad spends, as well as third party promotional sites. I'd love for the data to prove me wrong.

[Bill Hiatt]

Being a prawn, my data won't do you much good. I don't spend that much on ads or make that much.

Based on what I've read here, yes, a lot of people with large KU incomes also have large ad spends, but that isn't universally true. Amanda Lee has talked at some length about her ad spends, which, if I recall correctly, are less than 1% of what she makes. I also seem to recall Mark Dawson saying that, although his ad spends are large, his profits are far higher.

As far as the system being heavily weighted against small ad spends, can you think of any situation in which a small ad spend has the same effect as a large one? I can't think of too many situations in which that's true.

[wearywanderer64]

Seems like Select is a good idea.

[PJ Post]

Being a prawn, my data won't do you much good. I don't spend that much on ads or make that much.

Based on what I've read here, yes, a lot of people with large KU incomes also have large ad spends, but that isn't universally true. Amanda Lee has talked at some length about her ad spends, which, if I recall correctly, are less than 1% of what she makes. I also seem to recall Mark Dawson saying that, although his ad spends are large, his profits are far higher.

As far as the system being heavily weighted against small ad spends, can you think of any situation in which a small ad spend has the same effect as a large one? I can't think of too many situations in which that's true.

I wonder how much Amanda's 1% is in actual dollars though.

Once upon a time, businesses could pool various advertising and promotional tactics into an inexpensive strategy. They knew who would see the advertising, how often and the demographic data, so they knew how to best leverage their investment. Now, we have to out-bid each other in hopes of maybe reaching some portion of our target demographic. Besides being expensive, it's ridiculously imprecise.

I've been out of KU for while, so I'm not sure how much investment is required to hit the various income levels.

[Bill Hiatt]

Being a prawn, my data won't do you much good. I don't spend that much on ads or make that much.

Based on what I've read here, yes, a lot of people with large KU incomes also have large ad spends, but that isn't universally true. Amanda Lee has talked at some length about her ad spends, which, if I recall correctly, are less than 1% of what she makes. I also seem to recall Mark Dawson saying that, although his ad spends are large, his profits are far higher.

As far as the system being heavily weighted against small ad spends, can you think of any situation in which a small ad spend has the same effect as a large one? I can't think of too many situations in which that's true.

I wonder how much Amanda's 1% is in actual dollars though.

Once upon a time, businesses could pool various advertising and promotional tactics into an inexpensive strategy. They knew who would see the advertising, how often and the demographic data, so they knew how to best leverage their investment. Now, we have to out-bid each other in hopes of maybe reaching some portion of our target demographic. Besides being expensive, it's ridiculously imprecise.

I've been out of KU for while, so I'm not sure how much investment is required to hit the various income levels.

I think most people would agree that the lack of demographic data is one of the system's deficiencies. It may be that the lack of data drives spending higher, though I suspect it's more a case of an increasingly large number of people competing for finite resources. In earlier eras, there were certain practical constraints on how many people would be bidding on ad space. Since self-publishing has no constraint on entry, it's almost inevitable that the number of people involved will keep climbing. Not all of those people will buy ads, but enough will to keep the demand for the space escalating.

[Denise]

For those of you in KU, how many promotions, and especially, how much in ad spends are required; say for launch, and then for maintenance? How about as a percentage of sales?

Wide authors also advertise. Sometimes they target stores other than Amazon. It's the same for everyone.

[Bill Hiatt]

For those of you in KU, how many promotions, and especially, how much in ad spends are required; say for launch, and then for maintenance? How about as a percentage of sales?

Wide authors also advertise. Sometimes they target stores other than Amazon. It's the same for everyone.

Yes it is, but I think PJ was thinking in terms of AMS ads specifically. At least, that's the way it appeared in context.

[Shoe]

My books (I'm still writing the second one) are Scottish, hardboiled fiction. Has anybody had success in this genre on KDP Select? What genre does best?

It'll depend if people read your book through or bail after ten pages.

[LilyBLily]

It all depends on what you're writing. I think it's fair to say that if you publish a consistent type of story in only one subgenre, you're likely to get sell-through to your other books, whether you have two books or twenty.

There are many other elements. Facebook presence. Mailing list engagement. Pricing. Competition. Frequency of publication. Whether anybody really likes what one writes.

For hardboiled, I certainly wouldn't price low. Match the prices in your subgenre and also check to see how many of the best-selling indie hardboiled novels are in KU. That will give you a better sense of what to do. 



 

[TimothyEllis]

For those of you in KU, how many promotions, and especially, how much in ad spends are required; say for launch, and then for maintenance? How about as a percentage of sales? And I'm not trying to put anyone on the spot, but are you earning fun money, car payment money or serious business income. I'm not judging, it's just that from what I've seen, the publishers that are earning significant incomes are also investing thousands a month in AMS and Facebook ads.

The pay for play system seems to be heavily weighted against smaller ad spends, as well as third party promotional sites. I'd love for the data to prove me wrong.

I make a living, but I dont consider myself a business.

I stopped doing AMS ads a couple of months ago.

My last launch did as well as the previous one and the one before, without an AMS ad, just using my mailing list, FB and Instagram.

The last time I did an AMS ad for a book launch, the ad totally failed.

My mailing list is not big, but I average a debut rank around 2000 in the paid store, with a 3.99/4.99 price tag.

A year ago, the AMS ad took the 2000 launch rank, and pushed it up to #132. The following book went to #97. There were other factors involved, but the ad was measurably successful in boosting things.

This year, forget AMS. It no longer performs, even with double the bids I used last year. It has effectively priced itself out of being a useful tool. And as my last launch proved, no ad had the same result as an ad.

The best maintenance is a book release every month. Or at the most, 6 weeks. After that Amazon pushes you down the ranks regardless of how the book actually performs.

The next book is still the best way of keeping an income flow regular. Mind you, I''m betwewn 8 and 14 weeks at the moment, which isnt often enough, but its all I can manage.

I'll be keeping an eye on AMS, but for now, it's proved itself to be way too expensive for very little result, and if you don't pay the exorbitant amounts needed to get a real result, you may as well not bother at all.

My attitude is spending 10k to make a 2k income is just ridiculous. I have 26 novels now, and 2k without any advertising is a bad month, and so far I've never dropped below that. Been below 3k a few times, but the really great months provided a buffer for the really bad ones.

I am considering doing a Freebooksie on book 1 again soon, but that's my advertising budget for the rest of the year. Book 1 hasn't been on the promo sites for 2 years now, and the universe is now a thing where it wasn't back then. So a whole new way to advertise it as a universe start.

AMS? Forget it.

[Shoe]

For those of you in KU, how many promotions, and especially, how much in ad spends are required; say for launch, and then for maintenance? How about as a percentage of sales? And I'm not trying to put anyone on the spot, but are you earning fun money, car payment money or serious business income. I'm not judging, it's just that from what I've seen, the publishers that are earning significant incomes are also investing thousands a month in AMS and Facebook ads.

The pay for play system seems to be heavily weighted against smaller ad spends, as well as third party promotional sites. I'd love for the data to prove me wrong.

Nearing four months out from my last release, I'm averaging a $50 daily spend to clear (net) $90-120 a day. I advertise five of my twelve books, and read-thru is fairly high (all standalones).

[dgcasey]

Seems all positive so far.

Well, Amanda Lee, who some think is worth listening to (myself included) seems to think that Amazon, though not the perfect solution for us, is the biggest sandbox in town. Like it or not, if you don't play in it, you are going to be leaving dollars on the table. And when it comes down to it, KDP Select is part of Amazon. You don't have to put every book into Select, but it would be foolish not to have some in there.

[Bill Hiatt]

Seems all positive so far.

Well, Amanda Lee, who some think is worth listening to (myself included) seems to think that Amazon, though not the perfect solution for us, is the biggest sandbox in town. Like it or not, if you don't play in it, you are going to be leaving dollars on the table. And when it comes down to it, KDP Select is part of Amazon. You don't have to put every book into Select, but it would be foolish not to have some in there.

I don't think anyone would question the sandbox size. When I started, late in 2012, Amazon was estimated to have about 60% of the US ebook market (back in the days when Barnes and Noble had 20%). The last author earnings report on the subject (dated now) showed Amazon with 73%. Barnes and Noble had fallen to under 5, and everyone else dropped except Apple, who went up a point or two. (KU, if considered a separate market, would have been the second largest.) The interesting thing was that in the UK, where there was at the time a lot more anti-Amazon activity, Amazon's market share was even bigger. In places like Canada, where people kept saying Kobo was king, Amazon had 60%. Australia was I think 53%. Now Amazon has a majority of US book sales in all formats. (The paper percentage has been rising.) Going wide is definitely still a strategy, but going wide without Amazon would be suicide for most writers.

The reason some people are concerned about Amazon is the erratic nature of its decision-making, coupled with the fact that KU isn't well run. There is also the "What will we do if Amazon collapses?" question. I think some of that is wishful thinking, at least in the short term, but Amazon doesn't always win. It's closing down its restaurant delivery service, and there is a recent estimate that it may have only 37% of all US online sales.  (The previous estimate had it at 47%, and it was 49% in 2018.) However, that's Amazon first-party sales. Amazon is not losing that much to other retailers. It's losing to its own third-party resellers, from whom it gets a cut. Walmart's online business is growing, but it's still far behind Amazon.

A nice side effect of more competition, though, is Amazon's decision to make Prime free delivery same day instead of next day. Walmart subsequently announced the same thing. And several companies are having large sales to compete with Prime Day. But none of the figures I'm seeing suggest that Amazon is going to collapse or even be surpassed by another retailer in the near future.

[C. Gockel]

Seems all positive so far.

First off: I would tell anyone who is starting out to use Kindle Unlimited regardless of genre.

Fullstop.

That said, it isn't all positive long-term. KU really favors new releases, and sometimes, for some series, going wide, especially with a permafree first in series makes more sense. But that ONLY makes sense with a deep backlist, so DEFINITELY start in Kindel Unlimited. Finish your series and THEN go wide.

[Tonyonline]

KDP select is the only platform where readers can try your writing for no cost/risk free and you still get paid. I know there's a cost for the reader, but trying your book doesn't cost them anything extra.

KDP select has readers who read a lot, who read indie, and who are willing to try new authors, which is exactly our audience (regardless of genre).

Well said.
I don't/won't do free. Well nearly, I sell one of my books for 0.99, but being in KU, to my mind, is a lot better than giving your book away for free and hoping to pick up readers.

[PJ Post]

First off: I would tell anyone who is starting out to use Kindle Unlimited regardless of genre.

Fullstop.

I'm not sure if this is true or not anymore. It certainly used to be, no question. I'm not just being argumentative, depending on one's goals and timeline, there might be better alternatives to building a career. If, on the other hand, you just want to start earning whatever you can now, then yes, KU is still your best bet.

[Vijaya]

Reading this thread with interest. I published my first novel one year ago. I'm not a big promoter and have lots to learn; I've done a few expts with AMS and a couple of clicks turned into sales. I decided to go wide but have only sold 5 copies on D2D. I'm so close to having $10 but I've not reached the threshold. I'm ready to try KU. But is it worth it if I just have the one book? And one published a year ago? How would it even get noticed in a sea of KU books? Would it be better to try KU with a new book instead? I'm planning on writing a little cookbook to go with my novel (there's a lot of food in my book and people are always asking me for recipes). I'd appreciate your thoughts. Um, I'm a slow writer--really wowed by even those who call themselves prawns. 

Thanks for asking the question Weary.

[Bill Hiatt]

First off: I would tell anyone who is starting out to use Kindle Unlimited regardless of genre.

Fullstop.

I'm not sure if this is true or not anymore. It certainly used to be, no question. I'm not just being argumentative, depending on one's goals and timeline, there might be better alternatives to building a career. If, on the other hand, you just want to start earning whatever you can now, then yes, KU is still your best bet.

There might be, but without more data, it's hard to tell.

Most of the people who've written about success going wide were authors already selling well when they made the jump. Now, of course that's only anecdotal data, and it's based on people who choose to post stats online, which may or may not be a representative sample of the whole self-publishing population.  But the feedback is remarkably consistent. The only person I can recall arguing that one didn't need to be well-established to do well in wide was a person who was well-established but successfully went wide with the first book for a new pen name. Otherwise, the ones I can recall were all making a living at writing. They didn't all leave KU, either. Some of them had been working long enough that they'd never been in KU in the first place. When it came along, their wide sales were too big to risk on an untried program. As with people who already had a strong following on Amazon when they took the jump, people who've been writing for years and made a name for themselves on all the sales channels are in a fundamentally different position from a relatively new or even less new but still prawny writer.

[Bill Hiatt]

Reading this thread with interest. I published my first novel one year ago. I'm not a big promoter and have lots to learn; I've done a few expts with AMS and a couple of clicks turned into sales. I decided to go wide but have only sold 5 copies on D2D. I'm so close to having $10 but I've not reached the threshold. I'm ready to try KU. But is it worth it if I just have the one book? And one published a year ago? How would it even get noticed in a sea of KU books? Would it be better to try KU with a new book instead? I'm planning on writing a little cookbook to go with my novel (there's a lot of food in my book and people are always asking me for recipes). I'd appreciate your thoughts. Um, I'm a slow writer--really wowed by even those who call themselves prawns. 

Thanks for asking the question Weary.

Nonfiction is a whole different situation, even if it is a cookbook related to your novel. This would be my (prawny) advice: if your novel is going to stay wide, make the cookbook wide, too. Readers of your novel would be the target audience for such a cookbook. I know there haven't been that many wide readers yet, but why irk the few there are? And more will probably trickle through over time.

Moving a year-old book into KU may not be a good idea, either. I've never tried that. It's possible KU readers would find it, but my guess is that it would require a strong advertising push. If I were you, I'd wait until you had a book unconnected to your previous one to use for the KU test. The new release bump will help KU readers notice it.

[C. Gockel]

First off: I would tell anyone who is starting out to use Kindle Unlimited regardless of genre.

Fullstop.

I'm not sure if this is true or not anymore. It certainly used to be, no question. I'm not just being argumentative, depending on one's goals and timeline, there might be better alternatives to building a career. If, on the other hand, you just want to start earning whatever you can now, then yes, KU is still your best bet.

There might be, but without more data, it's hard to tell.

Most of the people who've written about success going wide were authors already selling well when they made the jump. Now, of course that's only anecdotal data, and it's based on people who choose to post stats online, which may or may not be a representative sample of the whole self-publishing population.  But the feedback is remarkably consistent. The only person I can recall arguing that one didn't need to be well-established to do well in wide was a person who was well-established but successfully went wide with the first book for a new pen name. Otherwise, the ones I can recall were all making a living at writing. They didn't all leave KU, either. Some of them had been working long enough that they'd never been in KU in the first place. When it came along, their wide sales were too big to risk on an untried program. As with people who already had a strong following on Amazon when they took the jump, people who've been writing for years and made a name for themselves on all the sales channels are in a fundamentally different position from a relatively new or even less new but still prawny writer.

In my own experience without permafree BookBub to boost visibility across all platforms, going wide is really hard. With BookBub, it becomes another matter entirely.

My I Bring the Fire series hasn't had a free BookBub in ages, and I'm thinking of putting the first sequence into Kindle Unlimited, at least for a little while.

I think all authors should have SOMETHING in Kindle Unlimited, just to reach that audience.

[Bill Hiatt]

First off: I would tell anyone who is starting out to use Kindle Unlimited regardless of genre.

Fullstop.

I'm not sure if this is true or not anymore. It certainly used to be, no question. I'm not just being argumentative, depending on one's goals and timeline, there might be better alternatives to building a career. If, on the other hand, you just want to start earning whatever you can now, then yes, KU is still your best bet.

There might be, but without more data, it's hard to tell.

Most of the people who've written about success going wide were authors already selling well when they made the jump. Now, of course that's only anecdotal data, and it's based on people who choose to post stats online, which may or may not be a representative sample of the whole self-publishing population.  But the feedback is remarkably consistent. The only person I can recall arguing that one didn't need to be well-established to do well in wide was a person who was well-established but successfully went wide with the first book for a new pen name. Otherwise, the ones I can recall were all making a living at writing. They didn't all leave KU, either. Some of them had been working long enough that they'd never been in KU in the first place. When it came along, their wide sales were too big to risk on an untried program. As with people who already had a strong following on Amazon when they took the jump, people who've been writing for years and made a name for themselves on all the sales channels are in a fundamentally different position from a relatively new or even less new but still prawny writer.

In my own experience without permafree BookBub to boost visibility across all platforms, going wide is really hard. With BookBub, it becomes another matter entirely.

My I Bring the Fire series hasn't had a free BookBub in ages, and I'm thinking of putting the first sequence into Kindle Unlimited, at least for a little while.

I think all authors should have SOMETHING in Kindle Unlimited, just to reach that audience.

I have read some posts by people who suggested BookBubs weren't essential, but BB does figure in most of the wide strategies I've heard about. Unfortunately, incorporating that element is under BB's control, not ours.

My gut reaction for some time has been that having some books wide and some in KU is the sweet spot, though I have also heard the argument that potential readers might be concerned an author was moving away from their chosen platform and thus deterred from taking the plunge.

[Vijaya]

Reading this thread with interest. I published my first novel one year ago. I'm not a big promoter and have lots to learn; I've done a few expts with AMS and a couple of clicks turned into sales. I decided to go wide but have only sold 5 copies on D2D. I'm so close to having $10 but I've not reached the threshold. I'm ready to try KU. But is it worth it if I just have the one book? And one published a year ago? How would it even get noticed in a sea of KU books? Would it be better to try KU with a new book instead? I'm planning on writing a little cookbook to go with my novel (there's a lot of food in my book and people are always asking me for recipes). I'd appreciate your thoughts. Um, I'm a slow writer--really wowed by even those who call themselves prawns. 

Thanks for asking the question Weary.

Nonfiction is a whole different situation, even if it is a cookbook related to your novel. This would be my (prawny) advice: if your novel is going to stay wide, make the cookbook wide, too. Readers of your novel would be the target audience for such a cookbook. I know there haven't been that many wide readers yet, but why irk the few there are? And more will probably trickle through over time.

Moving a year-old book into KU may not be a good idea, either. I've never tried that. It's possible KU readers would find it, but my guess is that it would require a strong advertising push. If I were you, I'd wait until you had a book unconnected to your previous one to use for the KU test. The new release bump will help KU readers notice it.

Bill, thank you. That makes sense. I have a historical that I'm going to work on this fall, completely unrelated to Bound and I'll do the KU expt. with it.

[PJ Post]

In my own experience without permafree BookBub to boost visibility across all platforms, going wide is really hard. With BookBub, it becomes another matter entirely.

My I Bring the Fire series hasn't had a free BookBub in ages, and I'm thinking of putting the first sequence into Kindle Unlimited, at least for a little while.

I think all authors should have SOMETHING in Kindle Unlimited, just to reach that audience.

Bookbub was always a game changer/career launcher. But didn't Amazon change the algos to work against third-party promotional sites, or did I imagine that?

___

So for a new(er) author in KU, how much promotional/AMS investment is reasonably expected - all things being equal - to earn a consistent $500 a month? How about $1k?

[Shoe]

So for a new(er) author in KU, how much promotional/AMS investment is reasonably expected - all things being equal - to earn a consistent $500 a month? How about $1k?

How much marketing do you do now? (I'm not being nosy--knowing your current ranks and spend establishes a baseline. I can get some books to rank at 10k spending $15 on AMS a day, others will sit at 25k with that spend. I hold a couple of books around 50k spending $3 a day).

[C. Gockel]

Bookbub was always a game changer/career launcher. But didn't Amazon change the algos to work against third-party promotional sites, or did I imagine that?

Short spurts are definitely discouraged, but BookBub builds their audience so consistently that having a permafree on their site tends to have a tail that is at least 6 months.

[Bill Hiatt]

In my own experience without permafree BookBub to boost visibility across all platforms, going wide is really hard. With BookBub, it becomes another matter entirely.

My I Bring the Fire series hasn't had a free BookBub in ages, and I'm thinking of putting the first sequence into Kindle Unlimited, at least for a little while.

I think all authors should have SOMETHING in Kindle Unlimited, just to reach that audience.

Bookbub was always a game changer/career launcher. But didn't Amazon change the algos to work against third-party promotional sites, or did I imagine that?

___

So for a new(er) author in KU, how much promotional/AMS investment is reasonably expected - all things being equal - to earn a consistent $500 a month? How about $1k?

As C Gockel says, the algo change was aimed at sudden spikes. I'm not sure it was aimed at third-party promotional sites specifically, though it does change the old promotional strategy of stacking up promos on one day. With BB, I've heard different things. Some people have reported a shorter tail, others not. Positioning other promos before the BB can help please the algorithms by leading up to the spike. From what I've read, the algos now reward steady, consistent sales as opposed to rapid rises and falls.

[PJ Post]

How much marketing do you do now? (I'm not being nosy--knowing your current ranks and spend establishes a baseline. I can get some books to rank at 10k spending $15 on AMS a day, others will sit at 25k with that spend. I hold a couple of books around 50k spending $3 a day).

My participation in this discussion is more analytical, as opposed to actually asking for help. But thanks.     (no sarcasm intended)

I'm on hiatus until I can figure out what's going on with publishing these days. I'm of the opinion that relying on Amazon is a bad idea.

[Bill Hiatt]

How much marketing do you do now? (I'm not being nosy--knowing your current ranks and spend establishes a baseline. I can get some books to rank at 10k spending $15 on AMS a day, others will sit at 25k with that spend. I hold a couple of books around 50k spending $3 a day).

My participation in this discussion is more analytical, as opposed to actually asking for help. But thanks.     (no sarcasm intended)

I'm on hiatus until I can figure out what's going on with publishing these days. I'm of the opinion that relying on Amazon is a bad idea.

A lot of people would agree. My feeling is that Amazon is what there is at the moment. If something better comes along, great. I'm not necessarily holding my breath, though. It's hard to know what the future may hold. More viable competition may develop. A better business model may develop. There's just no way to know. All we can do is keep our eyes open.

I still chuckle every so often about some of the predictions from the past. As a teacher, one of my favorites is the idea that laser discs would revolutionize education. (Some of the younger authors are probably saying, "Laser what?")

[C. Gockel]

If Select terms were for 7 years, that would be one thing, but right now they are for three months, so you're not really stuck.

I don't think all the other retailers are going to go under, even if indies flock to Select--they'll stay alive with traditionally published books. Walmart just bought Kobo--I think that platform is going to grow. I wouldn't be surprised if they buy Scribd, too. I think it will be true competition for Amazon in a few years; and a true strong competitor will be worth more than a half-dozen smaller, weaker competitors.

That said, GooglePlay comes installed on all Android Devices now, and iBooks comes on all Apple phones. Those two retailers probably won't grow much, but they won't go away either.

[CoraBuhlert]

Now I'm probably as strong an advocate for wide as you'll find on this board. I've always been wide and never had a book in KU, because I already had an audience on the other platforms by the time KU came along.

However, for a brand new author with their first book, I'd suggest putting it in KU for three months. Because if you're new, you don't have any audience to lose on the other platforms. And you'll probably need some time to figure out the other platforms anyway. So I'd put the book in KU for three months and reevaluate whether to go wide or stay in KU, once the term is up.

In general, whether KU or wide is better for you depends on a lot of factors, e.g. genre, length (if you write a lot of shorts like me, KU will pay next to nothing), whether you have a global or a US-focussed audience, etc... 

[PJ Post]

It should be noted that you can only launch a book for the first time once.

[Bill Hiatt]

It should be noted that you can only launch a book for the first time once.

I must be tired. I'm not sure what this observation is connected to.

If you're thinking in terms of launching in KU and then relaunching wide, the launch is new for the wide outlets. Granted it's not new for Amazon, but I'm not sure why that makes a difference.

[PJ Post]

Launching a book for the first time carries more velocity potential, meaning it can get higher on the charts and garner more visibility with less promotion; in part, because it has less inertia fighting against it. Promo sites often have review exceptions for new books, and everyone likes to take a look at new stuff. The Amazon algorithms are significantly influenced by the age of a book - ergo the 30, 60 and 90 day cliffs. Once the book is launched, in KU or anywhere else, the market-clock of opportunity is working against the publisher.

An alternative approach might be to write the books, prep them, and then not publish them until the writer knows exactly how they plan to launch their career. Again, there are a lot of ways to do that now besides the traditional or KDP paths.

[Denise]

Launching a book for the first time carries more velocity potential, meaning it can get higher on the charts and garner more visibility with less promotion; in part, because it has less inertia fighting against it. Promo sites often have review exceptions for new books, and everyone likes to take a look at new stuff. The Amazon algorithms are significantly influenced by the age of a book - ergo the 30, 60 and 90 day cliffs. Once the book is launched, in KU or anywhere else, the market-clock of opportunity is working against the publisher.

An alternative approach might be to write the books, prep them, and then not publish them until the writer knows exactly how they plan to launch their career. Again, there are a lot of ways to do that now besides the traditional or KDP paths.

But that's the thing, Amazon has algorithms that can help you get visibility, new release lists, tiny categories, etc. They actually help the book be visible, so much so that nowadays, with AMS ads, people are sad/upset/disappointed that they're not getting as much organic visibility.

If you decide to do the other way around, go wide, and then go to KDP select, by the time the book is in KDP select, it's old news on Amazon and won't have as much chance for visibility on the amazon store (which is the only store giving any tiny visibility to new books).

That's why it's better to launch in KDP select and then go wide. Wide doesn't matter as much when you launch. The stores themselves don't give you visibility unless you participate in promos, for example for Kobo.

The authors I know who do well wide use their lists, BookBub, or advertize for other platforms (like Apple) using BB ads, FB ads, or Instagram ads. Some have established audiences. The stores themselves do 0 for the books. 

[PJ Post]

I'm not recommending one path over another, just saying there's options - and opportunity costs.

For example, wide or KU are not the only choices.

[Bill Hiatt]

I'm not recommending one path over another, just saying there's options - and opportunity costs.

For example, wide or KU are not the only choices.

No, they aren't, but if you define wide broadly enough, and if you aren't advocating excluding Amazon, which you've said you aren't, then those really are the only two choices. Wide doesn't just mean other online stores. It can also mean selling from one's own website, posting on Wattpad, distributing through Patreon, as you were experimenting with, or any number of other things. Wide just means using more than just Amazon to distribute.

[PJ Post]

Agreed in principle.

But 'wide' does imply selling digital book files at retailers beyond Amazon - the Market of Things, as opposed to patreon, wattpad, youtube or some other monetization program that bypasses traditional distribution channels altogether.

I'm totally on board that Amazon and KDP was an awesome opportunity for writers to reach new fans. But it's important to remember that Amazon's way of doing things is no more sacred than the Query-Go-Round used to be. These online retailers are just one path, or just another revenue stream. I think it's a mistake to think about business strategy in terms of Amazon's playbook. I think self-publishers should think about what they want to accomplish and then develop a distribution strategy to get there, which obviously, may or may not include Amazon.

[wearywanderer64]

Well, I've put it in Select. Now to look for a cheap promo sit for this genre. Any ideas?