Organizing Massive World - Wiki? What?

[WasAnn]

Okay, totally at a loss here and open to suggestions. I've been creating a world and series since 2014. I have a ginormous wall (12 ft high, 25 feet long) with stickies all over it, plus a notebook with characters, details, etc. Plus a few word docs. Plus....

I'm about ready to actually start the real meat of the writing (next year), but the organization of the world itself and all the ins and out of each character (20 main characters for planned 8 books, plus backstory books), is getting cumbersome.

I know that some epic fantasy writers use private wikis to do that, but I looked up some options and my eyes rolled back in my head when they started talking code and languages and all that.

Scrivener won't work for this. I'm thinking a real wiki, or something that functions exactly the same as one in terms of organizing cascades of data by subject and time, would work.

Anyone have ideas? Experience? What do you do to organize massive world building and multi-novels plotting like that? My ears are open!

[Tom Wood]

I haven't used it, but Aeon Timeline might be what you are looking for. It integrates with Scrivener.

https://www.aeontimeline.com/users/creative-writers/

[Bill Hiatt]

If you had a self-hosted WordPress site, you could create a series of private pages. Add a plugin like Easy Table of Contents (which is why I mentioned the self-hosted part), and you can use headings to enable fast navigation within each page. Switch between pages via links (and/or create links to major sections via something like Lightweight Sidebar Manager (create custom sidebar for your project pages that can be different from the one you use for public pages and posts). Since pages can be organized as children of other pages, it's also fairly easy to navigate via the top menu in most themes. No coding is required.

(Was that confusing? I wrote things down as they occurred to me. I can clarify as needed.)

That approach would work, though it would possibly take longer to set up than a wiki. Are you sure all of them require coding? Someone at my former school was using wikis with students who weren't coders. Unfortunately, that's someone who left quite a while ago, so I don't know how to get in touch with her. I'm looking at https://www.notion.so/product, and Notion doesn't seem to need coding, though I can't be sure based solely on the limited illustrations provided.

That's all I can think of right now.

[Bill Hiatt]

I haven't used it, but Aeon Timeline might be what you are looking for. It integrates with Scrivener.

https://www.aeontimeline.com/users/creative-writers/

Wow, that looks interesting! It's hard to tell without using it, but it does at first glance look like what WasAnn was thinking about.

[Tom Wood]

I've seen Aeon Timeline discussed in various forums, so it has some proponents.

Speaking of Scrivener, they just put out Release Candidate 1 for the new Windows 3 version. The expected release date is August 31.

[Post-Doctorate D]

Similar here.  I have a spreadsheet I started with all the characters from one "world" (over 100 and I don't have them all entered) along with a document containing details of settings and such.  Doesn't really work as well as I had hoped.

Downside of a wiki is that it's online which means it's accessible only if you're online and I just know that I would want to work on things when the power or Internet is out.  Granted, power and Internet only go down rarely, but it seems one or the other goes down right when you need something.

If you had a private wiki hosted on your own private server, that might be more workable.  With battery backup, you'd still have access in the event of a power outage.  But you'd need your own server and all that.

I've seen suggestions of using mind-mapping software and I've tried that but, ugh.  For me, mind-maps are cumbersome and stupid.  I know some people swear by them but for me I just think they're stupid.

I think the best bet is probably a relational database with a nifty front-end.  Wouldn't be hard to build, but it's one of those things I haven't gotten around to doing.  I've looked at options like FileMaker and some others, but the easiest way is probably just MySQL (or one of the various alternatives) and PHP.  Put it on your own server, use battery backup and there you go.  Of course, in your case, that would require the dreaded coding which I surmise you don't want to do.

I know there was, if I remember right and I don't guarantee that, an open source (or cheap) wiki software that wasn't hard to install.  It seems to me I tried it once on a test website.  Or maybe I didn't.  Who can remember?  Not me, apparently.  I cannot recall the name either.  Oh, wait.  Never mind.  It used to be called Piwik and it was for WordPress analytics.  No wonder they changed the name.


TL;DR: Um, I guess I got nuthin'.

[Lynn]

For databases, there's always Access or LibreOffice Base.  https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/base/

I have a database for title sales, which I totally abandoned because way too much work to keep up. :D

On that note, yes, I have a giant universe or two, writing book #10 and 11 now in one series and #7 in another, which I'm working on #12-17 in another right now (today).

You don't want to do what I do, probably, which is absolutely nothing. I was a binge studier in college and I'm pretty much that way as a writer. I binge read and skim all my books several times while I'm in the process of writing the next one and I really do just keep it all in my head. I have a 4 page document in Word (LibreOffice now, actually) that has a bunch of random junk in it and that's it.

I don't know how you organized people do it. I can keep my spreadsheets with numbers and data just fine, but the minute I start trying to organize my creative output I get metaphorical hives.  I can't do it. I'm still waiting for some enterprising fan to create a fan page I can sneak off to read instead of having to skim through all my books.

Well, let me rephrase that. I skim my books the easy way. I literally created a single Word doc and pasted every book in the series inside it and keep it updated every time I add a new book. No problems with it yet, and it has seriously cut down on the time I spend opening other books and searching through them with CTRL + F for things. :D

Oh, and you can download the stuff you need to install a server and PHP on a Windows machine (probably Apple too) and set up a PHP wiki right on your local machine, no internet needed. https://www.howtogeek.com/67717/how-to-setup-your-own-powerful-wiki-on-your-windows-pc/ That's just one of the many tutorials you can find online to help you get started with that. I prefer Xampp. Or used to. It's been a while. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki_on_XAMPP

[Dormouse]

Lots of possibilities. It really depends on what suits you.

Aeon Timeline is good, but most helpful in tracking timeline details. I wouldn't recommend it for anything else although you could probably make it work.

There are wikis that you can use on your computer - eg WikidPad (free), ConnectedText ($40), TiddlyWiki (free). Unless you're used to them and like them, I'd suggest not trying.

If you are very highly organised you can use spreadsheets or databases. But they are relatively rigid.

I feel that the key concept is hyperlinks and a very good search facility. Many programs can do this.

I use OneNote most because I can use it on any platform. You can organise it however you wish. Can be as visual as you want. Can contain links to documents or spreadsheets or contain the documents and spreadsheets itself. Can be as big as you want. But it's idiosyncratic and there are always things you expect it must do but it doesn't. People tend to love or hate it. I do both.

When I'm writing, I will #Name for every name I want to add to the OneNote bible, and then remove the # when I've done it. You can pants as much as you want and still have a bible.

If I'm referencing material frequently, I will copy it to something I can see easily on one of the monitors that i'm not using for the writing. Saves constantly hunting through the source. I use sticky notes.

[Jeff Tanyard]

I make files as I need them.  For simple lists, I use Notepad.  For more complex stuff, I use OpenOffice Writer and Calc.  If I need a visual representation to help me keep things straight, as in the case of a battle, then I use Paint.

Nothing fancy, and it can get pretty haphazard, but it (mostly) works for me.

[Simon Haynes]

For years I've used freemind, the mind-mapping software (cross-platform, free)

https://sourceforge.net/projects/freemind/

A mind mapper, and at the same time an easy-to-operate hierarchical editor with strong emphasis on folding. These two are not really two different things, just two different descriptions of a single application. Often used for knowledge and content management.

[WasAnn]

For years I've used freemind, the mind-mapping software (cross-platform, free)

https://sourceforge.net/projects/freemind/

A mind mapper, and at the same time an easy-to-operate hierarchical editor with strong emphasis on folding. These two are not really two different things, just two different descriptions of a single application. Often used for knowledge and content management.

Now I'm venturing down the rabbit hole watching youtube videos of how to use this. LOL. Thanks! I'll check it out.

[VanessaC]

If you're a Windows user, have your tried One Note? I used it years ago for a project and liked the flexibility - you get to name your tags, write where you want on the screen, etc - as long as you don't need to print anything out, it might help.

Alternatively, a lot of fantasy writers like Word Anvil - it looks way, way too complicated for me, but if you need a lot of pages, might help?

I can't imaging trying to organise all that information - it's bad enough with one, linear, series with the same characters ...!

[Alice Sabo]

Another One Note fan here. I have a notebook for each series. Each notebook has tabs for World, Characters, Etc. Each tab has pages and can do sub-pages. The pages are not limited and you can load images, tables, etc. I even keep a tab with loose ends by book in the series so I don't forget what I need to wrap up in the next installment.

I leave it open while I write so that I can cut and paste any new information, like a sudden realization that a character has some favorite food or weird phobia. I usually cut and paste a description and keep track of any slang or invented words for my non-humans.

If you are familiar with databases, try Zoho Creator. They have a free version for private use and it's super easy to use. The only downside is that it's online.

[Lynn]

I also have a few things in OneNote. Forgot about that even though I have it open several times a day. It's really good for just dumping info and finding it later.

Freemind is nice. I've used it. I just admit that I got tired of trying to fill it in. Simon's post made me remember that I wanted to create a separate mindmap for each series I have to keep up with character connections, so I might give it another go myself.

I have heard a lot of good things about World Anvil for world-building stuff. You definitely might want to check it out. I haven't, so I'm going 100% off hearsay.

[feste]

I know that some epic fantasy writers use private wikis to do that, but I looked up some options and my eyes rolled back in my head when they started talking code and languages and all that.

Scrivener won't work for this. I'm thinking a real wiki, or something that functions exactly the same as one in terms of organizing cascades of data by subject and time, would work.

If you're still thinking "wiki," I've been putting together my own wiki using CherryTree (https://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree/).  It's been amazingly simple:  write my text, highlight something I want to link elsewhere in the wiki, tell the program what to link to.  That's it!

You can make as many pages as you need and group the pages any way you need to; my wiki contains folk beliefs of various culture groups, so I have broad divisions (creatures, cultural artifacts, etc.) and then have some pages under those divisions (birds, horses, mastodons, etc.)  I can put an anchor anywhere in a page and link to it from other pages, just like Wikipedia.  So, if owls are your thing, I have a page on folk beliefs about birds with an anchor at the section on owls and another anchor at the section on screech owls, and I can link to whichever I need to.  (Screech owls seem to skeeve people out and so have a lot of lore attached to them.)

Searching is incredibly easy, which means I don't have to have a page just on Lenape lore or ancient Roman lore; I just add "Lenape" or "Roman" at the end of the entry and search for the term when I want to find lore specific characters would know.

The best part is, it isn't online, the whole thing is on my netbook, in the Dropbox folder.  It's also on a flash drive, so I can carry a copy around.  I use the portable app version of CherryTree, from https://portableapps.com/

It's been fun working with this.  I make web pages and epubs by hand, but at the beginning I was a bit intimidated by the "create a wiki" thing.  However, it's turned out to be much easier than I thought it would be.

[Kristen.s.walker]

I have tried everything from wikis to the wall of sticky notes (and binders full of extra sheets). I settled on Evernote set up like a wiki. Works on and offline, on my computer and phone. I can scan the older handwritten notes, add pictures and websites, organize into sections, create Tables of Contents, link between notes, tag them, etc. Currently organized three series and their respective worlds.

Used the free trial of Aeon Timeline once but had trouble getting into it. Also could only figure out how to do the real calendar, couldn't add my made up calendar for my worlds. I do my timelines by hand again. Often have to track Moon phases as well as dates so it gets complex.

[Leegreg]

This may sound weird, but check out campaign management guides for game masters. Here’s a list from the D&D compendium.

I’m tempted by world anvil in that list, but since it requires paying to make your world private, I haven’t tried yet.