Is anyone else reluctant to spend on advertising?

[dgcasey]

His advice is to target only ASINs of ebooks if you want to sell ebooks because the regular keyword targeting puts your ebook ads in front of print buyers. They don't click, and if they do they don't buy. Amazon notices this and interprets it as low relevancy.

I don't really see that as being the case. If you have both ebook and print available and they both show up on the same product page, most buyers are sophisticated enough to know they can click on the Paperback button and get a paperback and vise versa. I've never seen anyone complain they thought they ordered a paperback and got an ebook instead.

[notthatamanda]

I think you're right but in my case I don't have audio, and most of my books aren't in print (working on it) so I really don't like paying for clicks on those formats.  If someone's in the market for an audio book, they aren't buying anything from me.

[Simon Haynes]

I'm reading both Ryan's books at the moment - thanks to whoever suggested those.

Targeting specific ASINs has done nothing for me. I think I'd have to add about a thousand to get enough hits, and to me it looks like the Amazon algo only shows my book on the first dozen (in descending numbers of impressions) and then zero for all the rest.

[Simon Haynes]

I think you're right but in my case I don't have audio, and most of my books aren't in print (working on it) so I really don't like paying for clicks on those formats.  If someone's in the market for an audio book, they aren't buying anything from me.

I have audiobooks on most of my first-in-series, but the bidding on audiobook product pages is way higher than for ebooks and paperbacks. Presumably large publishers are advertising there.

[notthatamanda]

Then it's even more perplexing than that in the categories they put my books on audio pages.  Why not take the audio bids from the people who have audio books.

[dgcasey]

Then it's even more perplexing than that in the categories they put my books on audio pages.  Why not take the audio bids from the people who have audio books.

Interesting. I know that when I'm setting up a category campaign, I see the category that will be targeted and just above that, it tells me if a search for something like Suspense will be in the Audible, Book or some ridiculous category such as /Automotive/Motorcycle & Powersports/Powersports Parts. Like you, I have no Audibles right now and I'm not looking to market to the motorcycle parts crowd. I've been known to click on a category without paying much attention, only to find I've targeted the Audible category and have to go back and Remove it.

[notthatamanda]

Maybe that's something that changed, or something I missed, or misunderstood.  I know I was always frustrated when checking the 10 digit codes on the search terms report and an audible book came up.  I'm not doing a lot on categories now, one or two clicks a day usually.

[TimothyEllis]

Update on the last ad, which is still going, much to my surprise.

28500 views, with 40 clicks costing $7.37. Zero sales.

But the interesting thing is, several of the books are doing better, and while overall daily money isn't much better, it's also not dropping which at this point in my cycle, it normally would.

The thing is, I'm not sure Amazon have a clue about sales from an ad. It looks to me like people click the ad, then they wander about the series slider to see all the books, go to an earlier series if they're joined and wander about there, and finally either land at the beginning of the whole thing, or the book they originally clicked on, or it's book 1.

And all through this, Amazon has totally lost track of any connection between the eventual sale, and the original ad click.

Hence the stats for low click ads have no sales data at all.

Like collecting read data in KU, Amazon appear to be clueless as to what is actually going on from ads.

But for the moment, my small ad is getting views, and my daily money is holding, and occasionally spiking.

[Simon Haynes]

Good to hear.

I ran my test and the book I dropped from the ads lost 30% of the page reads yesterday, while the one I boosted more than doubled.

Don't forget it can take up to 2 weeks for sales figures to show on the dash.  Personally, I ignore all the orders/sales side of the stats and go by increases in page reads and sales in my own figures.

[notthatamanda]

Supposedly they track everything the ad clicker buys for two weeks and credits any sales over those two weeks to those ads.  Emphasis on supposedly.

I have seen the phenomena you are taking about, more sales than they are crediting the ads for.  I don't know how it works either.   One of my very first sales was credited to a keyword that didn't have any clicks on it.   I run the search term report daily, and the ad spend every morning, subtract my royalties and make sure I'm in the black every day.  If the ads are helping me make more money, I'm happy, even though I really want to know how the system works.

[garygibsonsf]

I'm very firmly in this camp, being deeply reluctant to spend money on advertising. That said, of the two books I've so far self-published (following on from a primarily trad pub career), I think maybe a sixth to a seventh of my overall sales can be tracked to ads, which in my case are just about exclusively AMS in the UK and US. In raw numbers, that's an overall spend since March 2018 of £320 for sales of just over £700. And, of course, that sales figure is for the total price, rather than my slice of the income, so while I've probably made a profit, it's not really much of one for the amount of effort involved.

(I should add here that the above figure is purely Amazon UK. I've barely sold more than a handful of books in the US via advertising in that same time period, and when I say a handful, I mean a handful.)

I've tried spending more in the past - pennies, compared to some of the numbers being tossed around here - but every time I did it didn't prove worth it. I got no extra sales, just more expensive no-sale clicks. I've got decent covers, and spending more on the covers with each new release to get the best quality art I can afford.

So, yeah, reluctant. Mind you, every now and then I read about some guru or other who's handling a whole range of AMS accounts for authors and helping them make money. There are paid advertising promotion services that can supposedly be useful, and help improve sales significantly, but I can see people here and elsewhere are generally leery of them, either because their effectiveness is questionable or because they're insanely expensive.

One in particular, Books Go Social, I've thought of signing up for, but something keeps pulling me back at the last moment (I'm interested in their Amazon ads services and Netgalley access, much less interested in their Twitter accounts and email lists, which they push quite heavily but which, according to some anecdotal evidence I've gathered, are no use). But they're not too expensive, so I may yet give them a go.

Mind you, the fact that advertising accounts for just a sixth or seventh of my overall sales suggests that organic sales on Amazon are a gold-lined pipeline all in themselves. You can perhaps raise visibility using ads, but perhaps, in the end, it really comes down to compelling writing, a cool idea and a good cover.

I keep thinking of a friend who's got a dual trad and self-publishing career (he works for a games company). A while back he put the first in a new series out and due to various life events was unable to give it any support or promote it in any way whatsoever. When he was finally able to check how it was doing, some time after its release, it was in the top five thousand or so on Amazon.com with zero promotion and raking in stupid amounts of money.

The only real rule is that there are no rules.

[Simon Haynes]

I've just started advertising a pre-release on FB, Bookbub and AMS.  I'm not after preorders as such, I just want people to recognise the cover. (As a side benefit, after 24 hours it's already #5 top new release in its category on Amazon UK. That's the sort of visibility I was after.)

Also, it's highly targeted so I don't screw my also-boughts. (I just spent 3 hours of my writing time today picking out more targets for the ads)

I've half-convinced myself that a click on Bookbub is almost always a sale, whereas yesterday on AMS I had 23 clicks on the ad for a middle-grade paperback and saw only 3 sales from it. (It's a paperback though, so figs won't come through for 3 days anyway.)

On Facebook I'm advertising the book's page on my own website, with links from there to product pages in various countries. Can't link them to sales though, as they're preorders.

Unless I jump from one ad platform to another I won't know which is working better than the other two, and at this stage I'm happy to just share my ad budget between them.

[DougM]

I'm playing about with AMS ads again. After a few weeks of a general ad, composed of my series starters, most got pretty well ignored, but one of my series starters got more attention, so now I'm focusing an ad just for that series.

For everything else, I need to redo my covers yet again, without cash. I have no idea how I'm going to swing this.

[Arches]

I haven't been successful in ads with AMS, Bookbub, or Facebook (except for limited times) in years. Still, with each new series, I try. I'm trying now with AMS and only earning about 2/3 of what I spend. The keyword costs are too high. No luck yet with BB, despite following Gaughran's approach laid out in his book, but I'm still testing alternatives. And I'm looking forward to wasting more money on Facebook soon.

[LilyBLily]

I was just about to reduce the budgets of my ongoing ads when I did a quick check of the KDP sales dashboard (not the AMS) and the ad billing on the ads dashboard. I was pleasantly surprised. The net money earned is three times what I've paid out in ads so far this month. I guess I'll leave them be for a while. I've never had a loss month with the ads, but sometimes it has come awfully close.

I'm doing a Kindle Countdown in two weeks and will pump up the ad budget then to see if I can pull in some new readers as the next book in the series also launches. Some people suggest pausing the Amazon ad during a Countdown. What say you all?

[notthatamanda]

Do some calculations.  If you will lose money on your current rate of conversion, if the book is 99 cents (I'm assuming) will your read through make up for it?  It's not an absolute but it will give you some idea.  What do you usually spend on a Freebooksy and how many sales do you think you can get spending the same on AMS?  Then watch the budget carefully.

You could also just bid really low and hope the algos like it enough to place it, but I wasn't ever successful bidding low for romance.  Too much competition for the slots.

[CaptnAndy]

As a writer who has chosen to spend more time and my limited resources on writing rather than promotion, when the AMS adds became unaffordable last Spring, I stopped them. Since then, I have done modest adds on fb and others. My best results have been with Printest paid adds. I used them on my latest release, the second book of my WW2 Alt History trilogy, After The Rockets Fell, with good results. As a test, I stopped them for two weeks and the sales dropped significantly.
I consider the Printest paid adds to offer the best value for me.

[TimothyEllis]

I consider the Printest paid adds to offer the best value for me.

What is Printest?

[notthatamanda]

https://www.pinterest.com/ People make virtual boards. Like if you are redecorating your living room, you put stuff on your living room board. Furniture, paint color, curtains.  It can be for anything though. I've actually found my books on people's boards for their TBR list. No idea how the ads work. I don't use it, but I probably should, at least for decorating. I have carpet samples in the house right now.

[dgcasey]

https://www.pinterest.com/ People make virtual boards. Like if you are redecorating your living room,

He's yanking his chain, Amanda. He spelled it wrong.   

[notthatamanda]

Got it. Another d'oh for me. Time for a donut.

[TimothyEllis]

Got it. Another d'oh for me. Time for a donut.

Don't you mean Doh!nut? 

[notthatamanda]

As long as it's 7000 calories and zero nutrition you can spell it however you want.

[Dianamoon]

I don't know whether it's just me and my frugal ways, but I can't seem to get over the fear of wasting money on ads.

Partly it's because there's no tangible benefit. If I spend on a cover, or an audiobook, or editing, I get something in return. On the other hand, when I put money into advertising there's this nebulous idea that it SHOULD benefit book sales, but the hard data never backs it up. Any extra income will be spread over several days, weeks or months, and I can't point to a bunch of sales and say 'THEY were thanks to the ad'.

It's even trickier now I'm in KU, because page reads aren't shown on the AMS dash.


As an example, I'm running one auto-targeted AMS ad which ran up US$25 in costs yesterday. (I saw the amount rising and for once I decided ... stuff it, let's see what happens.)  That generated 43 clicks.

The ad is for a first in a series of ten novels, so it could take a month or more for some of the people who clicked the ad to read their way through the entire series.

And here's the thing: if just 2 of the 43 people who clicked my ad DO read the entire series, that's a $15 profit.

Every business bone in my body is screaming at me to spend that much and more on ads every single day, but my brain just won't let me. I see the amount I owe AMS rising and put the brakes on.

Just to be clear, I've never spent more in ads than my incoming royalties. I'm not talking about putting myself into debt, just an unwillingness to put larger sums into advertising, even though it probably would pay off.

I'm new to the board, haven't read the entire thread, am just responding to the OP.

You are absolutely right to be loath to spending money on ads.

Long story short, ads have no provable payoff in sales. This is a little known secret in Big Five publishing. Paid ads are a small portion of the promo rollout of a big book.

So how do they sell? That's a long discussion... but it's a complicated process that adds up to word of mouth and sheer luck. Catching a wave. Making buzz. Selling to Hollywood. The whole nine yards.

But ads? Not really. And if it doesn't work for them, why should it work for us?

[Bill Hiatt]

I don't know whether it's just me and my frugal ways, but I can't seem to get over the fear of wasting money on ads.

Partly it's because there's no tangible benefit. If I spend on a cover, or an audiobook, or editing, I get something in return. On the other hand, when I put money into advertising there's this nebulous idea that it SHOULD benefit book sales, but the hard data never backs it up. Any extra income will be spread over several days, weeks or months, and I can't point to a bunch of sales and say 'THEY were thanks to the ad'.

It's even trickier now I'm in KU, because page reads aren't shown on the AMS dash.


As an example, I'm running one auto-targeted AMS ad which ran up US$25 in costs yesterday. (I saw the amount rising and for once I decided ... stuff it, let's see what happens.)  That generated 43 clicks.

The ad is for a first in a series of ten novels, so it could take a month or more for some of the people who clicked the ad to read their way through the entire series.

And here's the thing: if just 2 of the 43 people who clicked my ad DO read the entire series, that's a $15 profit.

Every business bone in my body is screaming at me to spend that much and more on ads every single day, but my brain just won't let me. I see the amount I owe AMS rising and put the brakes on.

Just to be clear, I've never spent more in ads than my incoming royalties. I'm not talking about putting myself into debt, just an unwillingness to put larger sums into advertising, even though it probably would pay off.

I'm new to the board, haven't read the entire thread, am just responding to the OP.

You are absolutely right to be loath to spending money on ads.

Long story short, ads have no provable payoff in sales. This is a little known secret in Big Five publishing. Paid ads are a small portion of the promo rollout of a big book.

So how do they sell? That's a long discussion... but it's a complicated process that adds up to word of mouth and sheer luck. Catching a wave. Making buzz. Selling to Hollywood. The whole nine yards.

But ads? Not really. And if it doesn't work for them, why should it work for us?

There is wisdom in that, but if ads don't work at all for the Big Five, why do they keep using them? Clearly, they must have some impact, or they'd stop using them, wouldn't they?

[Dianamoon]

I don't know whether it's just me and my frugal ways, but I can't seem to get over the fear of wasting money on ads.

Partly it's because there's no tangible benefit. If I spend on a cover, or an audiobook, or editing, I get something in return. On the other hand, when I put money into advertising there's this nebulous idea that it SHOULD benefit book sales, but the hard data never backs it up. Any extra income will be spread over several days, weeks or months, and I can't point to a bunch of sales and say 'THEY were thanks to the ad'.

It's even trickier now I'm in KU, because page reads aren't shown on the AMS dash.


As an example, I'm running one auto-targeted AMS ad which ran up US$25 in costs yesterday. (I saw the amount rising and for once I decided ... stuff it, let's see what happens.)  That generated 43 clicks.

The ad is for a first in a series of ten novels, so it could take a month or more for some of the people who clicked the ad to read their way through the entire series.

And here's the thing: if just 2 of the 43 people who clicked my ad DO read the entire series, that's a $15 profit.

Every business bone in my body is screaming at me to spend that much and more on ads every single day, but my brain just won't let me. I see the amount I owe AMS rising and put the brakes on.

Just to be clear, I've never spent more in ads than my incoming royalties. I'm not talking about putting myself into debt, just an unwillingness to put larger sums into advertising, even though it probably would pay off.

I'm new to the board, haven't read the entire thread, am just responding to the OP.

You are absolutely right to be loath to spending money on ads.

Long story short, ads have no provable payoff in sales. This is a little known secret in Big Five publishing. Paid ads are a small portion of the promo rollout of a big book.

So how do they sell? That's a long discussion... but it's a complicated process that adds up to word of mouth and sheer luck. Catching a wave. Making buzz. Selling to Hollywood. The whole nine yards.

But ads? Not really. And if it doesn't work for them, why should it work for us?

There is wisdom in that, but if ads don't work at all for the Big Five, why do they keep using them? Clearly, they must have some impact, or they'd stop using them, wouldn't they?

I said that it was a small part of traditional publishing promo roll out, not that they don't use it at all.

If it's a small part of traditional book publishing, there is no reason to believe it should be a large part of indie publishing promo.

Yet I see so many self-publishers thinking that advertising is what will separate them from the pack, and result magically in sales. I wish it were so. But it's not.

[Bill Hiatt]

Results seem to vary a lot. I've never had much success with ads, but there are people on this board and elsewhere who report that they do.

It's true that indies lean on ads more than the Big Five. I think that's partly because our options are more limited. When a trad bestseller has a new release, he or she gets a lot of press coverage, talk show appearances, rumors of Hollywood deals, etc. Indies get none of that except under very unusual circumstances.

Perhaps I'm missing something, though. Is there a tactic the Big Five use that we could make more use of, other than advertising? I think it would be easier to wean people off advertising so much if there were an alternative to it.

[Mysterywriter]

I used to use AMS when I was exclusive, but it just felt as though the amount I had to spend was always creeping up.

I went wide and now I do the odd freebie list (bookbub, ENT, freebooksie etc), but mostly focus on giving away my first in series on Facebook.

I pay $0.09 a click right now and am adding 200-300 people to my list a month.

[Dianamoon]

Results seem to vary a lot. I've never had much success with ads, but there are people on this board and elsewhere who report that they do.

It's true that indies lean on ads more than the Big Five. I think that's partly because our options are more limited. When a trad bestseller has a new release, he or she gets a lot of press coverage, talk show appearances, rumors of Hollywood deals, etc. Indies get none of that except under very unusual circumstances.

Perhaps I'm missing something, though. Is there a tactic the Big Five use that we could make more use of, other than advertising? I think it would be easier to wean people off advertising so much if there were an alternative to it.

The technique they use is the overwhelming power of an important influencer. If Oprah touts your book, you are guaranteed sales.

[LilyBLily]

True. I have zero ability to get national publicity for any of my books, and so ads really are all I can do to alert their potential readers of the books' existence.  Everything else involving publicity is extremely labor intensive and I have neither the time nor the energy to attempt it.

Also I must admit that Amazon ads have worked for my books. They aren't as good today as they were a few years ago, perhaps. They do cost more. But in a crowded store, they do their job and get my books some attention.

[Bill Hiatt]

Results seem to vary a lot. I've never had much success with ads, but there are people on this board and elsewhere who report that they do.

It's true that indies lean on ads more than the Big Five. I think that's partly because our options are more limited. When a trad bestseller has a new release, he or she gets a lot of press coverage, talk show appearances, rumors of Hollywood deals, etc. Indies get none of that except under very unusual circumstances.

Perhaps I'm missing something, though. Is there a tactic the Big Five use that we could make more use of, other than advertising? I think it would be easier to wean people off advertising so much if there were an alternative to it.

The technique they use is the overwhelming power of an important influencer. If Oprah touts your book, you are guaranteed sales.

But that's the point I was trying to make. When the last time Oprah touted an indie book? For the most part, we don't have access to that kind of influencer.

It's all well and good to say that indies rely too much on advertising, and you're right to say that it isn't always as effective as we think it's going to be. But it doesn't sound as if you have a viable alternative to suggest.

[C. Gockel]

But that's the point I was trying to make. When the last time Oprah touted an indie book? For the most part, we don't have access to that kind of influencer.

It's all well and good to say that indies rely too much on advertising, and you're right to say that it isn't always as effective as we think it's going to be. But it doesn't sound as if you have a viable alternative to suggest.

Yes, the help of a powerful influencer would be grand, but in the meantime, we have ads. No they are not as effective as having a powerful influencer in our corner, bu t they do work ... and may hopefully get us enough attention to have an influencer notice us.

[Tom Wood]

Back when I was young and stupid a couple of internet-cycles ago, I wandered into Mark Dawson's SPF group on Facebook and opined that Facebook ads were likely useless because people on social media don't read books. Colorful language ensued. 

[notthatamanda]

Realistically Oprah will plug 12 books a year. I didn't hear about the one she put on the Apple book club in November until this month and I was eagerly awaiting the book club to start. Even if she plugged a new book every day is she going to pick a science fiction book? Urban fantasy? Alternative history? There's an old saying, "What happens when you don't advertise? Nothing."

[Dianamoon]

Results seem to vary a lot. I've never had much success with ads, but there are people on this board and elsewhere who report that they do.

It's true that indies lean on ads more than the Big Five. I think that's partly because our options are more limited. When a trad bestseller has a new release, he or she gets a lot of press coverage, talk show appearances, rumors of Hollywood deals, etc. Indies get none of that except under very unusual circumstances.

Perhaps I'm missing something, though. Is there a tactic the Big Five use that we could make more use of, other than advertising? I think it would be easier to wean people off advertising so much if there were an alternative to it.

The technique they use is the overwhelming power of an important influencer. If Oprah touts your book, you are guaranteed sales.

But that's the point I was trying to make. When the last time Oprah touted an indie book? For the most part, we don't have access to that kind of influencer.

It's all well and good to say that indies rely too much on advertising, and you're right to say that it isn't always as effective as we think it's going to be. But it doesn't sound as if you have a viable alternative to suggest.

Sorry, we're talking past each other now.

Oprah has never touted an indie book and there's little chance she ever will.

I didn't say I had a viable alternative. In fact, I'm saying that the vast majority of us will not sell very many books. I'm not trying to be a downer. I'm just being realistic and offering my response to the OP, who is quite right not to want to spend hard earned money on something that won't pay off.

I intend to advertise. As some here have attested, advertising has resulted in some sales.

But my point simply is this: everyone here not so secretly wants to sell thousands of copies of books. I sure do. And it ain't advertising that's going to do it.

I have already said what I think works, but I'll say it again: luck, catching a wave, and having some powerful, influential voice say, "This is good, read it."

[Dianamoon]

But that's the point I was trying to make. When the last time Oprah touted an indie book? For the most part, we don't have access to that kind of influencer.

It's all well and good to say that indies rely too much on advertising, and you're right to say that it isn't always as effective as we think it's going to be. But it doesn't sound as if you have a viable alternative to suggest.

Yes, the help of a powerful influencer would be grand, but in the meantime, we have ads. No they are not as effective as having a powerful influencer in our corner, bu t they do work ... and may hopefully get us enough attention to have an influencer notice us.

I don't think that's the way it works. I think that in order to get an influencer to notice your work and care about it, you have to demonstrate to him/her in some way that your book will be useful to their image.

[Dianamoon]

True. I have zero ability to get national publicity for any of my books, and so ads really are all I can do to alert their potential readers of the books' existence.  Everything else involving publicity is extremely labor intensive and I have neither the time nor the energy to attempt it.

Also I must admit that Amazon ads have worked for my books. They aren't as good today as they were a few years ago, perhaps. They do cost more. But in a crowded store, they do their job and get my books some attention.

"labor intensive"

This is so true. When I think of the famous writers of my childhood, they spent an awful lot of time burnishing their brand on TV. Their brand being their name.

That is very time-consuming.

[Bill Hiatt]

Results seem to vary a lot. I've never had much success with ads, but there are people on this board and elsewhere who report that they do.

It's true that indies lean on ads more than the Big Five. I think that's partly because our options are more limited. When a trad bestseller has a new release, he or she gets a lot of press coverage, talk show appearances, rumors of Hollywood deals, etc. Indies get none of that except under very unusual circumstances.

Perhaps I'm missing something, though. Is there a tactic the Big Five use that we could make more use of, other than advertising? I think it would be easier to wean people off advertising so much if there were an alternative to it.

The technique they use is the overwhelming power of an important influencer. If Oprah touts your book, you are guaranteed sales.

But that's the point I was trying to make. When the last time Oprah touted an indie book? For the most part, we don't have access to that kind of influencer.

It's all well and good to say that indies rely too much on advertising, and you're right to say that it isn't always as effective as we think it's going to be. But it doesn't sound as if you have a viable alternative to suggest.

Sorry, we're talking past each other now.

Oprah has never touted an indie book and there's little chance she ever will.

I didn't say I had a viable alternative. In fact, I'm saying that the vast majority of us will not sell very many books. I'm not trying to be a downer. I'm just being realistic and offering my response to the OP, who is quite right not to want to spend hard earned money on something that won't pay off.

I intend to advertise. As some here have attested, advertising has resulted in some sales.

But my point simply is this: everyone here not so secretly wants to sell thousands of copies of books. I sure do. And it ain't advertising that's going to do it.

I have already said what I think works, but I'll say it again: luck, catching a wave, and having some powerful, influential voice say, "This is good, read it."

Yes, i did misunderstand your intent.

It's true that the average indie author sells few books, and that for some, advertising yields meager results at best. It apparently does better for others. Personally, I can move books that way, but I seldom end up with a positive ROI.

[dgcasey]

Back when I was young and stupid a couple of internet-cycles ago, I wandered into Mark Dawson's SPF group on Facebook and opined that Facebook ads were likely useless because people on social media don't read books. Colorful language ensued. 

Hmmm? Interesting. I just started his course and I am going through the Facebook portion of it right now and since the 27th of December, I'm running at about 84% ROI. Take that for what it's worth.

[dgcasey]

Oprah has never touted an indie book and there's little chance she ever will.

Oprah touts whatever she's paid to tout. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Mysterywriter]

Back when I was young and stupid a couple of internet-cycles ago, I wandered into Mark Dawson's SPF group on Facebook and opined that Facebook ads were likely useless because people on social media don't read books. Colorful language ensued. 

I’m guessing you have changed your mind bearing in mind your post, but I definitely don’t agree with your younger self!

Facebook is the cheapest way to get readers eyes on your book and to get them on your mailing list to push the rest to.

On the last 7 days 480 people clicked my link and around 300 joined my mailing list and it cost me $35

[Tom Wood]

Back when I was young and stupid a couple of internet-cycles ago, I wandered into Mark Dawson's SPF group on Facebook and opined that Facebook ads were likely useless because people on social media don't read books. Colorful language ensued. 

I’m guessing you have changed your mind bearing in mind your post, but I definitely don’t agree with your younger self!

Facebook is the cheapest way to get readers eyes on your book and to get them on your mailing list to push the rest to.

On the last 7 days 480 people clicked my link and around 300 joined my mailing list and it cost me $35

Yes, my younger self was brash and stupid. Definitely a change of mind. It's been a journey since then!

[Mysterywriter]

Back when I was young and stupid a couple of internet-cycles ago, I wandered into Mark Dawson's SPF group on Facebook and opined that Facebook ads were likely useless because people on social media don't read books. Colorful language ensued. 

I’m guessing you have changed your mind bearing in mind your post, but I definitely don’t agree with your younger self!

Facebook is the cheapest way to get readers eyes on your book and to get them on your mailing list to push the rest to.

On the last 7 days 480 people clicked my link and around 300 joined my mailing list and it cost me $35

Yes, my younger self was brash and stupid. Definitely a change of mind. It's been a journey since then!

Ha! I think just we’ve all been on that journey!

For me, it was realising that spending as money to sell on single platforms where the reseller holds all the customer information is not a good long term business strategy.

I went wide and now put all my effort into getting fans on a mailing list and writing more books.

[TimothyEllis]

Facebook is the cheapest way to get readers eyes on your book and to get them on your mailing list to push the rest to.

On the last 7 days 480 people clicked my link and around 300 joined my mailing list and it cost me $35

Yes, but, how many of them actually bought a book?

[Bill Hiatt]

Facebook is the cheapest way to get readers eyes on your book and to get them on your mailing list to push the rest to.

On the last 7 days 480 people clicked my link and around 300 joined my mailing list and it cost me $35

Yes, but, how many of them actually bought a book?

That's my experience with Facebook. I can get readers to engage in various ways (over 55,000 people have liked my author page, most of those have also followed it--for all the good that does these days, and ads always get high levels of engagement). However, book sales from FB are a trickle at best, at least for me. I will say that some people who started out as FB followers ended up as real fans, but that was a long process. It's difficult to quantify how many sales have resulted.

[Dianamoon]

Oprah has never touted an indie book and there's little chance she ever will.

Oprah touts whatever she's paid to tout. Nothing more, nothing less.

So maybe an indie writer should make her an offer. 

Still doesn't disprove my basic point. She has influence.

I was only using her as a prime example. There are others. Reese Witherspoon has a book club now. There's a ballerina named Isabella Boylston with 317K followers on Instagram who runs "Ballerina Book Club." Her followers are rabid and I'm sure that a recommendation from her is good for a few thousand sales at least. I'd be happy with that.

There must be others.

I'm not against advertising. I'm simply saying it has a very limited place in book sales.

[LilyBLily]

Oprah has never touted an indie book and there's little chance she ever will.

Oprah touts whatever she's paid to tout. Nothing more, nothing less.

So maybe an indie writer should make her an offer. 

Still doesn't disprove my basic point. She has influence.

I was only using her as a prime example. There are others. Reese Witherspoon has a book club now. There's a ballerina named Isabella Boylston with 317K followers on Instagram who runs "Ballerina Book Club." Her followers are rabid and I'm sure that a recommendation from her is good for a few thousand sales at least. I'd be happy with that.

There must be others.

I'm not against advertising. I'm simply saying it has a very limited place in book sales.

Considering Oprah's wealth, I doubt very much that she touts anything because of being paid to tout it, and I would speculate that an author trying to get her attention has to first write a book that catches her interest. Maybe if you said, "I'll give a million dollars to charity if you mention my book" and if it was a charity she liked, she might mention your offer. But mention your book? That would be a negotiation. I'll bet she's already turned down similar offers.

People think everyone can be bribed. It isn't true.

But as noted, some celebrities have large, avid followings, and a word from them will sell a lot of books. You can be sure that many authors are knocking at their doors.

[Dianamoon]

Considering Oprah's wealth, I doubt very much that she touts anything because of being paid to tout it, and I would speculate that an author trying to get her attention has to first write a book that catches her interest. Maybe if you said, "I'll give a million dollars to charity if you mention my book" and if it was a charity she liked, she might mention your offer. But mention your book? That would be a negotiation. I'll bet she's already turned down similar offers.

People think everyone can be bribed. It isn't true.

But as noted, some celebrities have large, avid followings, and a word from them will sell a lot of books. You can be sure that many authors are knocking at their doors.

I only agreed with that point in jest - of course, I don't think that Oprah runs a cash quid pro quo. But it's a given that she promotes books that will help her image. I hasten to add that there's nothing wrong with this.

That said, I shouldn't have agreed, even in jest. The suggestion that Oprah is unethical was wrong.


{Fixed the quote. t.}

[C. Gockel]

Yes, but, how many of them actually bought a book?

I have no experience using Facebook to get mailing list sign-ups. I do use BookFunnel and StoryOrigin. I find that for full-priced books, every 2.5ish BookFunnel / StoryOrigin subscriber is worth 1 organic subscriber. They -DO- buy. However I have to romance them. I usually give them a free short story and then send them to their favorite vendor to download a free novel. I point them to other free short stories periodically. I send them funny snippets from my works in progress.

[C. Gockel]

I don't think that's the way it works. I think that in order to get an influencer to notice your work and care about it, you have to demonstrate to him/her in some way that your book will be useful to their image.

I've had "influencers" pick up my work while it was on sale and recommend it. They weren't Oprah level influencers, but book reviewers with decent followings. They helped a lot when it came to getting BookBub ads that got me big sales down the line.