Author Topic: Question about Amazon price matching  (Read 13460 times)

JRTomlin

Question about Amazon price matching
« on: November 11, 2019, 03:32:09 PM »
I need to get a novel price matched free by Amazon, but I have a question.

If I do the price reduction using Kobo and D2D promotional price tools that makes the price change temporary, will Amazon match that? I've never done it that way, so I'm honestly not sure. Or does it need to be a 'permanent' (so to speak) price change for them to match it?
 

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2019, 03:38:48 PM »
It has to be permanently free somewhere, if you want it to be permafree on Amazon.

Otherwise Amazon will revert it the moment it stops being a lower price everywhere else. So if you use promo tools, the moment its out of promo, Amazon will revert it.
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notthatamanda

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2019, 09:40:17 PM »
You can't rely on the bots finding it and making it free.  You can try the "report a lower price" button, which did work the last time I tried it, but times before that I had to contact Amazon.  Getting it off of free is a pita as well. Took a phone call.  So just be prepared to stay on top of it, both when it's reduced and when it goes back up.

 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2019, 02:04:09 AM »
I've never had to do this, but anecdotal evidence suggests direct contact with Amazon is often necessary.

This is another one of those areas that Amazon needs to work on. I can understand Amazon not wanting to have free merchandise, at least on a permafree basis, and in some senses permafree undercuts the value of the Select free days, which were a big deal when they first started. On the other hand, Amazon has never exactly refused to price match to free (though there are more and more caveats about that being done at Amazon's discretion, rather than automatically). Some people have found it easy to do; others have found it much harder. There needs to be a more consistent protocol for it.


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TimothyEllis

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2019, 02:11:44 AM »
My understanding was a permafree book cant go into Select.

Is this right?  :icon_think:

Or am I confusing wide? If you're not wide, it can go in select. Not sure why you'd do a permafree and not put it wide though.
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123mlh

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2019, 02:25:57 AM »
I need to get a novel price matched free by Amazon, but I have a question.

If I do the price reduction using Kobo and D2D promotional price tools that makes the price change temporary, will Amazon match that? I've never done it that way, so I'm honestly not sure. Or does it need to be a 'permanent' (so to speak) price change for them to match it?

Yes. They should. Once the book is free elsewhere you can reach out to them through the Contact Us on the KDP dashboard. There's an option for requesting a price match. It gives you information to fill out and asks you to provide links. I recently did that using Google as my store for them to match to and using Simon's handy geo-links for Google was able to give them links for all fourteen stores or whatever it is.

As others said, once I removed the free price elsewhere the book went back to paid on Amazon which was my goal. If you want it to stay free, leave it free on the other sites.

And as to the other discussion above, if you're in KU then you only get x number of free days per period. To have a book be permanently free it needs to be listed elsewhere as free so it can be price matched therefore it can't be in KU since you have to be exclusive to be in KU.
 

Maggie Ann

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2019, 02:26:36 AM »
My understanding was a permafree book cant go into Select.

Is this right?  :icon_think:

Or am I confusing wide? If you're not wide, it can go in select. Not sure why you'd do a permafree and not put it wide though.

You can't set a book to permafree unless it's wide and you can show $0.00 on vendors like Apple, B&N, Kobo. SW doesn't work.

I've never found that "reporting a lower price" works. As soon as the book is free on the other vendors, I email Amazon and give them the links. They always say it's at their discretion but they always price match for me.

I've got three on permafree now.
           
 
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2019, 02:27:40 AM »
My understanding was a permafree book cant go into Select.

Is this right?  :icon_think:

Or am I confusing wide? If you're not wide, it can go in select. Not sure why you'd do a permafree and not put it wide though.
Since the only way to get a book permafree is through price matching, yes, a permafree book by definition can't go into Select.

Perhaps my comment about Select free days may have been confusing. Amazon, offering free days as a huge benefit of Select, might have been unhappy with the way price matching operated to give people outside of Select the ability to make a book free all the time, rather than just five days every three months. I'm speculating, but that could be one reason the price-matching system works more slowly. Amazon could have been ambivalent--not really liking permafree but conscious of how much uproar there would be if permafree was eliminated. Also, Amazon didn't want people making their books permafree everywhere but on Amazon. Amazon could force an Amazon price change, but trying to force authors to raise their prices on all other outlets would have been one long-continuous mess. So instead of taking a hard line, Amazon opted for a discretionary and inefficient system that would give authors headaches.

Of course, free days are not that important anymore. I doubt anyone joins Select just to get free days. It's all about KU. (Notice how many people refer to KU free days instead of Select free days.) But Amazon is still left with an inefficient system from earlier times when its priorities may have been different.


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TimothyEllis

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2019, 02:33:36 AM »
(Notice how many people refer to KU free days instead of Select free days.)

I get people on Quora telling me Select and KU are 2 totally different things. And they argue when I tell them Select is the author end of KU.

I wish Amazon would eliminate the use of Select, and just call it KU.

In fact, I've no idea why they did it that way.
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j tanner

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2019, 03:04:45 AM »
I wish Amazon would eliminate the use of Select, and just call it KU.

In fact, I've no idea why they did it that way.

Because KDP Select has a variety of benefits, of which access to Kindle Unlimited is only one, and not even one that was available when KDP Select launched. Select may get additional perks later (like Prime which would be a real misnomer if they'd called it Free 2 Day Shipping or similar at the time) and KU could be removed as a perk at some later time if they ever find the cost/benefit isn't in Amazon's favor.
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2019, 03:10:07 AM »
I wish Amazon would eliminate the use of Select, and just call it KU.

In fact, I've no idea why they did it that way.

Because KDP Select has a variety of benefits, of which access to Kindle Unlimited is only one, and not even one that was available when KDP Select launched. Select may get additional perks later (like Prime which would be a real misnomer if they'd called it Free 2 Day Shipping or similar at the time) and KU could be removed as a perk at some later time if they ever find the cost/benefit isn't in Amazon's favor.

You need to explain that, because none of it made any sense to me.

Especially, in what way did Select predate KU?
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2019, 03:45:58 AM »
KDP Select started in December, 2011. KU started in July, 2014.

Right now, I think it is probably the only truly meaningful perk of Select, but that certainly wasn't always true, and, as J Tanner points out, it may not be true in the future.


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Maggie Ann

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2019, 04:44:44 AM »
Can you be in Select without being in KU?
           
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2019, 09:51:32 AM »
Can you be in Select without being in KU?
No, Select books are automatically enrolled in KU. You can be exclusive to Amazon without being in Select, however. For instance, if you had a short story in an anthology that was in KU, and you also wanted to publish it separately, you'd have to keep it exclusive to avoid a TOS violation, but putting duplicate content in KU would also be a violation.

I think there's more demand for the opposite: being in KU without being Amazon-exclusive. That's one of my pet peeves. Exclusivity might have been a way to deprive a lot of smaller competitors of content, but those small fry aren't going to rise again at this point, and the players still in the games aren't going to die just because they don't have indie books. If they were going to do that, they'd already be gone. All that Amazon does by holding on to exclusivity is keep some authors out of KU. (Some would still stay out because they don't trust the page accounting or for some other reason, but others might come in.) It's another example of a policy that might have had a purpose once but now no longer does.


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JRTomlin

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2019, 11:24:07 AM »
I am aware that you usually have to contact Amazon. It is not becoming 'permafree'. I have a Bookbub promo coming up so I need to get it free on Amazon.

Both Kobo and Draft2Digital have a 'promotion' tool that shows the shopper that the price change is temporary and for how long. I was asking if you could use that to make to change the price on other vendors and still get Amazon to price match. It would be nice if I could use the promotion tool, but I suspect Amazon won't price match that so I'll change the price the 'regular' way.

If someone has experience that they will match temporary promotional price changes, would you let me know? Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 12:03:16 PM by JRTomlin »
 

notthatamanda

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2019, 12:16:15 PM »
Oh I see, I misunderstood.  I say do it the regular way, but I haven't tried it the other way.

Good luck on the bookbub.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2019, 12:26:11 PM »
Thanks. Crossing my fingers on the BB. I have a fair number of followers there & on my mailing list but if I could get a boost on both it would be nice for my novel coming out in December.
 

j tanner

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2019, 05:15:33 PM »
You need to explain that, because none of it made any sense to me.

Especially, in what way did Select predate KU?

KDP Select started around 2011, and Kindle Unlimited was added as a perk in 2014 or so. Signing up a book to Select gets you all of the following perks currently (but the perks have changed over time, and will almost certainly change again in the future.)

1. Kindle Unlimited availability
2. Kindle Countdown Deals
3. Free Promotion Days
4. 70% royalties in certain countries that otherwise only pay 35%
5. Kindle Owner's Lending Library availability
 

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2019, 05:19:39 PM »
1. Kindle Unlimited availability
2. Kindle Countdown Deals
3. Free Promotion Days
4. 70% royalties in certain countries that otherwise only pay 35%
5. Kindle Owner's Lending Library availability

Which of those were there prior to KU?

I always thought all of those were part of the reasons to be in KU.

I cant see any use for them outside of KU.
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2019, 12:56:10 AM »
1. Kindle Unlimited availability
2. Kindle Countdown Deals
3. Free Promotion Days
4. 70% royalties in certain countries that otherwise only pay 35%
5. Kindle Owner's Lending Library availability

Which of those were there prior to KU?

I always thought all of those were part of the reasons to be in KU.

I cant see any use for them outside of KU.
All of them were prior to KU. Countdown deals are the most recent addition (about a year before KU, if I remember correctly).

The reason you're reacting the way you are is that some of these benefits have eroded in usefulness over time. I think I've said this before, though maybe not in this thread, but free days used to be a big deal. There were literally people who claimed to have built a career with them. (That was when getting free books was a much more novel experience than it is now. It was also before affiliate rules change to penalize affiliates if too much of their volume came from using affiliate links on free offers.)

Similarly, the first countdown deal I did was moderately successful. But as the number of countdown deals increased, the effectiveness declined.

The 70% royalty in countries where you would normally get 35% was probably never much of anything. For me, that meant a higher royalty rate for countries I never got sales in, anyway. Aside from Indian authors, I've only run into a couple of people who've gotten any significant number of sales in India, for example.

There was an additional benefit that no longer exists. When AMS ads for KDP was first introduced, it was exclusively for people in Select. Later, anyone who published through KDP was eligible. The original program was introduced at about the same time as KU. (More ad revenue for Amazon, but less reason to be in Select.)
 
Some people still do get some mileage out of a judicious use of free days or countdown deals, but nothing like compared to what was happening in the beginning. For most of us, KU is the only substantive benefit of being in Select.   


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TimothyEllis

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2019, 01:06:05 AM »
1. Kindle Unlimited availability
2. Kindle Countdown Deals
3. Free Promotion Days
4. 70% royalties in certain countries that otherwise only pay 35%
5. Kindle Owner's Lending Library availability

Which of those were there prior to KU?

I always thought all of those were part of the reasons to be in KU.

I cant see any use for them outside of KU.
All of them were prior to KU. Countdown deals are the most recent addition (about a year before KU, if I remember correctly).

The reason you're reacting the way you are is that some of these benefits have eroded in usefulness over time. I think I've said this before, though maybe not in this thread, but free days used to be a big deal. There were literally people who claimed to have built a career with them. (That was when getting free books was a much more novel experience than it is now. It was also before affiliate rules change to penalize affiliates if too much of their volume came from using affiliate links on free offers.)

Similarly, the first countdown deal I did was moderately successful. But as the number of countdown deals increased, the effectiveness declined.

The 70% royalty in countries where you would normally get 35% was probably never much of anything. For me, that meant a higher royalty rate for countries I never got sales in, anyway. Aside from Indian authors, I've only run into a couple of people who've gotten any significant number of sales in India, for example.

There was an additional benefit that no longer exists. When AMS ads for KDP was first introduced, it was exclusively for people in Select. Later, anyone who published through KDP was eligible. The original program was introduced at about the same time as KU. (More ad revenue for Amazon, but less reason to be in Select.)
 
Some people still do get some mileage out of a judicious use of free days or countdown deals, but nothing like compared to what was happening in the beginning. For most of us, KU is the only substantive benefit of being in Select.

I stand corrected.  :dizzy
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j tanner

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2019, 09:26:40 AM »
The reason you're reacting the way you are is that some of these benefits have eroded in usefulness over time. I think I've said this before, though maybe not in this thread, but free days used to be a big deal.

Ah, the days of 1K downloads on a free day for a short story with zero promotion...

[/wistful sigh]
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2019, 01:30:03 AM »
The reason you're reacting the way you are is that some of these benefits have eroded in usefulness over time. I think I've said this before, though maybe not in this thread, but free days used to be a big deal.

Ah, the days of 1K downloads on a free day for a short story with zero promotion...

[/wistful sigh]
Even when I started, that was fairly common. Also common were hundreds of sites willing to promote a free day for free (before Amazon changed the affiliate rules).

That was when free was still shiny and relatively new. Now that readers are used to it, nothing short of a free novel is likely to attract attention, and even then mostly if it's heavily promoted. (Short stories will still work as reader magnets, but I wonder if even that will eventually die.

I can also remember being able to put out short stories at $0.99 and get some sales. Not any more! Readers are too busy waiting for those $0.99 box set deals!


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JRTomlin

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2019, 11:17:54 AM »
Sooo... to continue my little price matching saga, I changed the price to free at GP, Apple, B&N and Kobo and spent several days using the page link to notify KDP although I knew I'd almost certainly end up emailing them. And today I went to the Amazon page and it was 'price matched' to $1.99 which is a price it is at nowhere in the world. 🤦

Email sent. *sigh*
 

notthatamanda

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2019, 11:43:14 AM »
I used the call me now feature on KDP help when my first email to raise my price was ineffective.  They called right away and it was straightened out in five minutes, versus waiting 24 hours for each email to go back and forth. Not sure it will work for free, but it is there if you want to try. Good luck.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2019, 12:01:29 PM »
I will do that if I don't get satisfaction pretty quickly but I'm one of those 'I hate talking on the phone' people. lol
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2019, 01:54:54 AM »
I will do that if I don't get satisfaction pretty quickly but I'm one of those 'I hate talking on the phone' people. lol
I'm that way also. In addition, it's nice to have a paper trail to refer to later if verification that certain steps were taken is required. That said, of course if a call is the only way to get a quick resolution, then I'd call.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 02:24:53 AM by Bill Hiatt »


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JRTomlin

Re: Question about Amazon price matching
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2019, 03:42:22 AM »
It's free now. Apparently my 'WT everloving F are you doing?' email worked. (Okay I didn't put it that way but it was implied lol)