Author Topic: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?  (Read 5745 times)

Joe Vasicek

Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« on: June 21, 2020, 01:45:47 PM »
It has been known for some time that for purposes of book rank, Amazon treats a KU borrow the same as a sale, even if the borrower never reads the book. If 80% of the page reads come from 20% of the KU borrowers, then for every KU subscriber who borrows and reads a book, four or five others borrowed it and never read the whole thing—but all of those borrows counted toward book rank. Whereas if 80% of book sales come from 20% of the readers who downloaded the free sample, then there are four or five of those readers for every sale—but only the first counts for book rank. Since the Amazon algorithm uses rank as one of the key factors when determining which books to recommend, enrolling a book in KU gives it a significant boost—or so the logic goes.

So I was listening to the most recent SPA Girls podcast, in which they interviewed Alex Newton from K-lytics, and I was surprised to hear him say that according to his data, enrolling a book in KU does not confer preferential treatment from the Amazon algorithms. At first, I didn't think that could be true, but then I realized that it made sense if the 80:20 rule no longer applies to book sales. Thus, instead of 80% of book sales coming from 20% of readers who download the free sample or otherwise visit the book page, it's closer to a 1:1 ratio.

If that is indeed the case, then it means that Amazon is less a place where people come to discover new books/authors and more a place to find books/authors that they discovered elsewhere. In other words, readers are turning away from Amazon's book recommendations and more to things like group promotions, newsletter swaps, BookBub, Facebook, YouTube, and other places to find new books and authors. Perhaps this is why Amazon has been slowly phasing out also boughts, or pushing them further down the page: because that's not how readers are discovering new books in 2020.

Thoughts?
 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2020, 02:28:30 PM »
The also-boughts didn't just disappear from book pages, though.  They disappeared from other kinds of product pages.  It's particularly frustrating when you're shopping for tools or something where you need to also shop for accessories.  That sort of thing--accessories--is where the "frequently bought together" thing just isn't good enough because it doesn't give you enough options.

For me, the also-boughts didn't go missing until a few months ago.  Then they were gone for most of this calendar year.  Now, though, they seem to be returning.  For example, Joe, I see seven pages of also-boughts on your Brothers in Exile page.

I've always held onto the belief--and this is just my own guesswork here, so take it for what it's worth--that the disappearing also-boughts was a symptom of server strain.  The elements on the product page load individually, not all at once, and that tells me they're powered by different servers.  When Amazon got into video streaming in a big way, I think they underestimated the server capacity they would need in order to keep the whole store running smoothly, and the result was the also-bought equivalent of rolling brownouts.  And also-vieweds, too, because those would sometimes fail to load, too, and whatever else would occasionally go missing.

Other have postulated A/B testing, and I'm not going to discount that possibility, either.  Until Amazon spills the beans about it, we're all just theorizing.

So no, I don't think the disappearing also-boughts have anything to do with KU due to the fact that they disappeared from other kinds of products, too, not just books, and they seem to disappear and reappear in a random fashion rather than as part of a discernible plan.

As for how the algorithm treats KU and rank, I have no idea.  I'll leave that to the podcasters to suss out.
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2020, 05:39:22 PM »
I've noticed very little absence of also-boughts this year.

What is totally absent is follower emails, and about 80% of the advertising emails they used to send out.

The mail server seems to be the most overloaded one. And they cut down non-essential emails to cover the amount of sales emails needing to be sent.

It's not so much people turning away from Amazon's book recommendations, so much as Amazon isn't making many these days.

And I just noticed, none of my books I looked at had an AMS slider on them. Also-boughts, also-viewed, what they bought next. No AMS.
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notthatamanda

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2020, 10:53:25 PM »
I just checked mine and the first book I looked at has "Books you may like"  and Dr. Seuss's "Oh, the places you'll go" in the first page of the carousel.   :icon_question: I haven't looked for a book for that age group in five years. I do love Dr. Seuss so maybe the algos are smarter than me.

That's followed by the sponsored carousel.

I think they change stuff up frequently at least in part to eliminate the selective blindness users get. Having a different title on the carousel draws the eye. Just a guess.

 

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Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2020, 11:01:57 PM »
I just checked mine and the first book I looked at has "Books you may like"  and Dr. Seuss's "Oh, the places you'll go" in the first page of the carousel.   :icon_question: I haven't looked for a book for that age group in five years. I do love Dr. Seuss so maybe the algos are smarter than me.

That's followed by the sponsored carousel.

I think they change stuff up frequently at least in part to eliminate the selective blindness users get. Having a different title on the carousel draws the eye. Just a guess.

You know, that sparked a thought.......

What if......

Books with a sponsored bar only have them because someone is using that book or author in their AMS keywords?

Maybe the books with no sponsored bar are the ones where no-one uses them or the author as a keyword?

Not sure if I should be happy about that, or upset?  :icon_think:
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notthatamanda

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2020, 11:22:18 PM »
I'm pretty sure no one is using me or my titles as key words.  If there is someone with a KDP Rocket type program, they could see the usage on keywords, right? I don't have that program. But someone could take a book/author with ranks in the 5 million+, check the usage, then see if those books still have sponsored ad carousels. I think that makes sense, but I could be mixing things up.

Edit - after coffee thought - but people advertising on keyword "WW II fiction" would still be placed on my sponsored ad carousel. Amazon would definitely take the 5 cents bids and put them somewhere.  I got 8 pages of sponsored ads right now.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 01:35:19 AM by notthatamanda »
 

JRTomlin

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2020, 05:00:04 AM »
The Also-Boughts have been there consistently for me but at the bottom of the page which I find annoying when I am shopping.
 

alhawke

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2020, 05:26:08 AM »
If there is someone with a KDP Rocket type program, they could see the usage on keywords, right?
I have KDP Rocket and the cool thing is that it will actually give you a percentage of hits per keyword. So I don't look at book rank when I pick keywords through AMS. Now, how accurate this is and whether it truly makes a huge difference ...

I use it for AMS but do awful with AMS. So, go figure. I do much better with authors entered with ads in BookBub.

I think it really sucks that the Also Boughts is at the bottom now. Why? And "Books you might like" is now at the top. This kinda sucks for us. I believe most average day readers will be way too lazy to go through book reviews and then look at Also Boughts. Your voracious readers in the know will still  look at it, of course.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2020, 05:44:09 AM »
If there is someone with a KDP Rocket type program, they could see the usage on keywords, right?
I have KDP Rocket and the cool thing is that it will actually give you a percentage of hits per keyword. So I don't look at book rank when I pick keywords through AMS. Now, how accurate this is and whether it truly makes a huge difference ...

I use it for AMS but do awful with AMS. So, go figure. I do much better with authors entered with ads in BookBub.

I think it really sucks that the Also Boughts is at the bottom now. Why? And "Books you might like" is now at the top. This kinda sucks for us. I believe most average day readers will be way too lazy to go through book reviews and then look at Also Boughts. Your voracious readers in the know will still  look at it, of course.
Exactly my reaction to the ABs.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 07:53:03 AM by JRTomlin »
 

notthatamanda

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2020, 06:01:57 AM »
Oh yeah, there they are at the bottom. I've got also boughts and also reads.  One of my first page of also bought is in KU and two of my first page of also reads is in KU. What the heck is the difference between also boughts and also reads supposed to be?

With regard to KDP Rocket, I tried it over a year ago, and I did think the data it offered you could be useful. But you had to come up with the key word that had the magic combination of a lot of searches and not a lot of advertising on it, (TBH I can't remember exactly) but I played with it for a couple of hours a night during the trial period and never managed to find any keywords with the magic combination. So it could tell me my key words stunk, but it wouldn't tell me any good ones. Though it would confirm they were good, if I came up with them.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2020, 07:51:12 AM »
I bought KDP Rocket about a year ago and could not make it useful. I use a different strategy than it tries to force on you so it was a terrible match for what I was looking for. Even though I'd paid for it, I uninstalled it. No doubt it works for a lot of people. It didn't for me.
 

alhawke

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2020, 08:43:04 AM »
For me with AMS, KDP rocket comes in handy for a new ad. I can get like 500 or more keywords easily. Then I can create more targeted ads from there. But, again, I haven't had much luck with AMS lately, anyway.

I do find KDP rocket works very well for researching the seven keyword selection and category for a new book.

Notthatamanda, I've never noticed Also Reads until you mentioned it. It must be books with similar # page reads for KU?
 

notthatamanda

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2020, 09:05:37 AM »
To me also boughts should = sales
Also reads should = KU
but not all the books in my also reads are in KU.
So, you got me Amazon. No idea what the freak it means.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2020, 12:12:40 PM »
Same here. My novels that have never been in KU have 'also reads' which baffles me. No clue what that means.

ETA: Anyway, back to the original topic, unless having them at the bottom of the page is an indicator, and they've been there for months now, Amazon isn't phasing them out just making them much less prominent.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 12:15:19 PM by JRTomlin »
 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Is this why Amazon is phasing out also-boughts?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2020, 02:33:33 PM »
The location of the also-boughts is constantly changing for me.  When I commented earlier that I saw seven pages of also-boughts on Joe's Brothers in Exile page, the also-bought slider was near the top right underneath the "Books in this series" slider.

Right now, though, I'm looking at the same product page a day later, and the also-boughts are now eight pages' worth, not seven, and they're beneath the reviews.  The also-read slider is now directly under the series slider.

 :Hqn66ku:

I find it difficult to believe that this constant and seemingly capricious fluctuation is intended.  I'm sticking with my server-capacity theory, but I'm adding "clunky code" to that theory.
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