What have you found to be true for YOU?

[Lorri Moulton]

I'm sure we all discover things that don't always match what we read about writing and how to be successful.  I'm not saying the tried and true doesn't work, but maybe something else has worked for you.  Anything to share?

For me, it's not about writing to market.  It's writing to MY market.  I don't pay to advertise, but I do have a lot of social media promotions.  One thing I've realized is my readers will try almost any genre...as long as the heat level of the romance is the same (pretty much G rated or closed door) with no body parts mentioned, etc.  And any colorful language is limited to what you'd hear in old film noir movies. 

I tried writing a few stories that were a little 'steamier' but ended up cutting a few sentences and staying in everyone's comfort zone.  Not saying I'll never branch out under a pen name, but so far this seems to be working for me. 

ETA:  Full disclosure, there's no romance in the non-fiction.
 

[Post-Doctorate D]

I have found that no matter what it is, if I write it, it won't sell.   

[Lorri Moulton]

I have found that no matter what it is, if I write it, it won't sell.   

Did you add a  scene?  Just asking...

[Kate Elizabeth]

I do my own covers.  Maybe I'll hire them out one of these days, but I started out of necessity, and grew to enjoy making them.
Some were/are horrible.  Some are really good, if I may say so.  I can't do anything fancy, and I keep it simple, but I've had to ban myself from buying more fonts.

[Shoe]

It's not only about the money. Initially, I misfired, creating covers and blurbs that would never in a thousand years grace a book I would buy personally. Things didn't turn around until I ditched "to market" marketing, de-troped my stories, and rewrote them the way I wanted to do from the start. Only then did I start making money.

[Post-Doctorate D]

I have found that no matter what it is, if I write it, it won't sell.   

Did you add a  scene?  Just asking...

In one novel, there were no love interests so no one was kissing anyone, except towards the end when a minor character ended up with someone but still no kissing scene.

In another novel, the potential love interest rejected the main character and ended up with the guy who stole his identity.

In another novel, the guy liked the girl but she thought he was too old.  Other characters didn't fare much better.

In the short story collection, I think there was a kissing scene.  There was also biting and blood and death.

[idontknowyet]

People have told me to work only on one book at a time.  I've been working on all 18 and its been going well so far.

[Maggie Ann]

People have told me to work only on one book at a time.  I've been working on all 18 and its been going well so far.

You have to work in the way that's best for you.

[Lynn]

Size hasn't seemed to matter. My 48k word novels sell as well (and better in some cases) than my 80k+ word novels.

You can guess what that has meant for my more recent books.

Spoiler: ShowHide

Nothing. Gah. I can't write to length to save my life. A book is as long as it is.

[She-la-te-da]

I'm too poor, too stupid, too stubborn and willfully won't write to some mythical market that magically encompasses every single person on Earth.
#doomed
Also, why is it showing I have flash fiction unlocked? This forum takes forever to post my replies. Plus, insomnia sucks.
/rant

[Simon Haynes]

Don't do your own covers, don't mix genres, don't write comedy+[sf/f genre], do get a trade publisher, don't get a trade publisher, get an agent, get a different agent, write longer books, write shorter books, don't edit your books after they're published, don't run a mailing list (or do!) ....

The amount of conflicting advice in this business is unbelievable.

My road map generally involves finding what works and doing more of it.

[A Fading Street]

The biggest truism I have found for me, after some serious record-keeping and painstaking statistical analysis, is that if I write or edit on a device that has the internet on it, I get less work done. . Just off to look at twitter for five minutes now 

[Shane Jeffery]

Stuff that's true for me:

1. KU1 made it profitable to write serials. Now I NEED to write books in Serial form in order for the book to work. I just combine the serial episodes together and release that as a book.
2. Books with one POV character seem to rate higher with readers than ensemble POV
3. It is important to bring as much realism as possible to scenes. True Horror can be most frightening if you believe it is something that could actually occur.
4. Working between what I like and what readers like is a balancing act
5. The most satisfying thing out of writing isn't money, its finishing a book and being in love with the story
6. Real life wants to make it as difficult as possible to write. It wants to steal my every waking hour. When you have a choice between relaxing after a hard day's work or getting your daily writing quota, it really takes a mental fortitude of iron clad strength to persevere.
7. My writing gets better with every year that passes. This doesn't change the fact that some readers flat out hate me no matter what I'm writing.
8. Author friends online come and go. The more successful an author friend of yours becomes, the less likely they'll stick around.

[Lex]

I do my own covers.  Maybe I'll hire them out one of these days, but I started out of necessity, and grew to enjoy making them.

Ditto. Except I started out of not knowing any better. 


There was a general consensus a few years ago that Twitter was a terrible place to market books, but I had a lot of luck with it. They've since changed the platform a lot, and I've pretty much abandoned it for marketing purposes. But for a while it was my main source of mailing list subscribers.

[guest215]

True for me:


!. Whatever works won't work for long. Mechanics and trends will change very soon.
2. Whatever everyone else is doing, probably don't do that. They're either glutting the market with it or driving prices up. Or both.
3. Don't read books from supposedly successful authors who supposedly want to teach you how to duplicate their success.
               a) If they were raking it in that hard with their A hustle, they wouldn't have time for a B hustle.
               b) Nobody shares their most valuable tactics. Otherwise, it would stop working. (See #2.)
               c) See #2

[Rick Partlow]

I self-edit successfully, despite multitudes of warnings that it's impossible.  Not only is it possible, I've come up with a system that works well and quickly.  It's probably true that most people can't, but I've been able to do it.

[Lynn]

I self-edit successfully, despite multitudes of warnings that it's impossible.  Not only is it possible, I've come up with a system that works well and quickly.  It's probably true that most people can't, but I've been able to do it.

Same. I have my reasons for self-publishing and they include the idea that I get to do what I want. I am happy to do my own editing and proofreading. My business, my rules. :D

Nobody touches my books but me. That's not a popular mindset with a lot of authors, but it's my life. I get to do what I want. :p

[LD]

8. Author friends online come and go. The more successful an author friend of yours becomes, the less likely they'll stick around.

I can see this being true. For me though, how you treat me when I'm a nobody is how I'll treat you when I'm a somebody.

What I've found to be true for me:  I can't vomit words for the rough draft. 

[Ghost5]

This is a great thread and I could (and should) write down concrete lessons I've learned as there are so many.

But what springs to mind is an Oliver James quote:

Do your own thing on your own terms and get what you came here for.

[Max]

I will always need an editor. There isn't enough time in a day to do the things I want to do that day. I'll probably die before I let out all the stories in my head.

[T. M. Bilderback]

I write stories that I'd enjoy reading myself.  If it doesn't grab my attention, I can't finish it!

Oh, and there's this:

I have found that no matter what it is, if I write it, it won't sell.   

 

[WasAnn]

Wow...this is a surprisingly deep question and I love everyone's answers.

For me:

1) If I write for money, I start to hate writing. If I write for love, I adore it.

2) I can write a good tale quickly. I can write an awesome tale if I take my time (2 months vs 3 years).

3) Working on more than one book at a time is awesome sauce for me. It allows the works to "simmer" while I work on another one. When I return to it, I see more possibilities and better ways of writing the words.

4) A clean WIP is a better WIP, so I clean them up like I've got OCD before they go to the editor.

5) My dog's brain-power kisses are exceptionally effective.

6) If I love the book and the tale and the characters, then the reader will know it.

[Bill Hiatt]

Don't do your own covers, don't mix genres, don't write comedy+[sf/f genre], do get a trade publisher, don't get a trade publisher, get an agent, get a different agent, write longer books, write shorter books, don't edit your books after they're published, don't run a mailing list (or do!) ....

The amount of conflicting advice in this business is unbelievable.

My road map generally involves finding what works and doing more of it.

You've hit the nail on the head. The reason there is so much conflicting advice is that there is no one formula that works for everyone. I think that's partly because there are millions of readers out there, and their tastes vary widely. No one writer will ever appeal to all of them, but a few thousand fans who reliably buy on author's work could be enough to meet a lot of indie author's goals.


I had a good chuckle a few months back when I realized that the thre books I'd read most recently (one a bestseller, one by a bestselling author, and one by an indie author making a living at writing) did nearly everything my editor told me not to do. OK, so the first two might have done it better, but I think I'm pretty much in the same league as the third one. Anyway, they were all successful by defying the conventional wisdom.


On an unrelated note, is it just me, or does the selection of emojis change every day? 

[Al Macy (aka TromboneAl)]

I do my own covers.  Maybe I'll hire them out one of these days, but I started out of necessity, and grew to enjoy making them.
Some were/are horrible.  Some are really good, if I may say so.  I can't do anything fancy, and I keep it simple, but I've had to ban myself from buying more fonts.

Three of these things are not like the others,
Three of these things just don't belong,
Can you tell which ain't like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Which three of these covers (including the ones in my signature) did I design myself (I don't think it's that difficult)?

[Post-Doctorate D]

1) If I write for money, I start to hate writing. If I write for love, I adore it.

I know that feeling.  Although sometimes it's like, nobody's going to read this so why bother?  And that tends to slow me down.  It was easier when I didn't know any better and was all like, oh yeah, this is gold and people will love this and it'll be a movie or TV show and I'll be rich and famous and stuff.

6) If I love the book and the tale and the characters, then the reader will know it.

Seems to be the opposite for me.  The book I spent the most time on (20 some years and probably ten or so drafts of the first ten or so chapters) that I thought was good and my editor thought was good gets very little love.  The one I wrote in about a month and a half where I start chapters by mentioning what I ate is the one that's my best seller.

And then, last year, I rewrote and finished a story I started back in the 80s.  It had never been finished (only wrote two chapters) and I completely reworked it.  Another author agreed to give it a read and feedback and she was like, I can really tell where you really got into the story because everything was flowing just right and stuff, and she described which parts those were and it was like, those were the parts I struggled with and spent days trying to work out.

I will always need an editor.

Ditto.  Apparently I have no idea how to use commas.

I write stories that I'd enjoy reading myself.  If it doesn't grab my attention, I can't finish it!

Oh, and there's this:

I have found that no matter what it is, if I write it, it won't sell.   

 

Ditto on both counts.  Apparently I'm the only one that likes to read the stuff I like to read.  Zombies.  Meh.  Time traveling zombies with pet poodles fighting hippies in Victorian England?  Oh, yeah.

[Lorri Moulton]

Ditto on both counts.  Apparently I'm the only one that likes to read the stuff I like to read.  Zombies.  Meh.  Time traveling zombies with pet poodles fighting hippies in Victorian England?  Oh, yeah.

Exchange poodles for dragons and I'm with you! 

[idontknowyet]

 Time traveling zombies with pet poodles fighting hippies in Victorian England?  Oh, yeah.

You found the most incredible book ever and chose not to share the title?!!!?!?              

[Robin]

I self-edit successfully, despite multitudes of warnings that it's impossible.  Not only is it possible, I've come up with a system that works well and quickly.  It's probably true that most people can't, but I've been able to do it.

Same. I have my reasons for self-publishing and they include the idea that I get to do what I want. I am happy to do my own editing and proofreading. My business, my rules. :D

Nobody touches my books but me. That's not a popular mindset with a lot of authors, but it's my life. I get to do what I want. :p

Pretty much how I think! My books, my rules  I like to think I self-edit and proofread successfully too.

[Vijaya]

Enjoying this thread.

The amount of conflicting advice in this business is unbelievable.

My road map generally involves finding what works and doing more of it.

This.

I discovered that magazine writing helps to sell the books.

[Max]

snipped...

The amount of conflicting advice in this business is unbelievable.

So true. Have you pondered why?

Think it's genre related? Experience related? Goal related? Because some define success differently?

I can't help but read something and always wonder about the whys.

Thoughts? Anyone?
(Not just picking on Simon, here.)

As for me, I figure there are various factors.
In some cases, individuals call something a win that someone else might not, so for them, what got them there was successful, therefore they will preach it.
In other cases, someone can do many things wrong, and still succeed. In other cases, the universe drops some pixie dust luck, and boom! success, which they then attribute to what they did.
There are more, I'm sure, but I'm running on zero caffeine...

[Post-Doctorate D]

 Time traveling zombies with pet poodles fighting hippies in Victorian England?  Oh, yeah.

You found the most incredible book ever and chose not to share the title?!!!?!?              

I made that up.  Do you want me to write it?  LOL.

[idontknowyet]

 Time traveling zombies with pet poodles fighting hippies in Victorian England?  Oh, yeah.

You found the most incredible book ever and chose not to share the title?!!!?!?              

I made that up.  Do you want me to write it?  LOL.

Um yes!!!!!!!! 

[Post-Doctorate D]

snipped...

The amount of conflicting advice in this business is unbelievable.

So true. Have you pondered why?

In some cases, it's because people are dishonest.

Some people parrot what they have heard rather than what works (or doesn't) for them.

Or if something doesn't work for them, instead of admitting it didn't work, they make excuses why it didn't work and continue parroting the advice of others because they believe them over their own experience.

Some people lie.  Maybe they have no sales.  Or maybe they have lots of sales but don't want to tell the truth about how they got them.  So they make something up, perhaps using advice from someone else as a guideline for their lie.

Some people follow the "fake it 'til you make it" mantra which means they have to lie about the success they are faking.

And so on.

Then on the flip side you have people that are honest about what they are doing.  But what worked for one person might not work for another.  As a minor example (since my sales are minuscule), I once got a small sales bump when my book appeared on a site most authors would prefer their books not appear on.  So, if I were to give advice based on that, well, that's not going to work for most people and others aren't going to want to try it.  LOL.

And then sometimes you might not really know how you achieved your success.  Years ago, I had a sudden sales increase on my website (not books).  It's like, okay, I'm doing something right.  Quality content.  Good pricing.  Etc.  And if I had given that advice, I wouldn't have been lying.  I would have been telling you what I did and the apparent results.  So it would have been truthful so far as I knew.  But, in that case, I found out within a short amount of time the real reason for the sales bump.  A popular magazine had an article and my website was listed in there as a resource to buy stuff.  Now, it may have been quality content, good pricing, etc. as the reason they selected my site, but the thing directly responsible for the sales bump was being listed in that article.  If I hadn't found out about the article (by a customer referencing the magazine article when they placed an order), I wouldn't have had any idea.

So sometimes you only think you know what you know and you don't know what you don't know.

[Post-Doctorate D]

 Time traveling zombies with pet poodles fighting hippies in Victorian England?  Oh, yeah.

You found the most incredible book ever and chose not to share the title?!!!?!?              

I made that up.  Do you want me to write it?  LOL.

Um yes!!!!!!!!

But then I have to research Victorian England.

[idontknowyet]

 Time traveling zombies with pet poodles fighting hippies in Victorian England?  Oh, yeah.

You found the most incredible book ever and chose not to share the title?!!!?!?              

I made that up.  Do you want me to write it?  LOL.

Um yes!!!!!!!!

But then I have to research Victorian England.

Why? You want the zombies in a realistic land?

[Post-Doctorate D]

Why? You want the zombies in a realistic land?

So you're saying you'd be okay with an alternative reality Victorian England that might not be like the historical Victorian England at all but only like what I've seen the couple of times I've watched that show where Jenna Coleman plays the queen?  Okay, once.  And only for a couple minutes until they jumped to another scene without her.  Maybe it'll be Jennaian England.  With dragons too so I'll be guaranteed at least two sales.

[okey dokey]

You should always tell the truth, unless it's too dull.

[Cathleen]

I'm with WasAnn on this one--I have to love the story. If I don't, it'll take a long time to finish, even longer to edit, and in the end, I won't publish it.

So that means I won't be a writer who writes to market in the sense of following trends, unless I happen to get lucky and a trend pops up that matches what I write.

I'm hoping it matters that I'll have a cohesive backlist--all books in the same subgenre. I don't write fast enough to skip around.

Oh, and so far I've found that I write well enough to give away books that gather a lot of good reviews. Not too good at selling them yet. I'm hoping that's a temporary thing.

[DougM]

True for me:

Every big bet that I've made, I've lost money.

When I'm having fun, the word count blurs.

When I write to market, I miss like missing the broad side of a barn.

[Rose Andrews]

I self-edit successfully, despite multitudes of warnings that it's impossible.  Not only is it possible, I've come up with a system that works well and quickly.  It's probably true that most people can't, but I've been able to do it.

THIS. This works for me as well. I started out hiring editors but had bad experiences and lost money every single time. Out of frustration, I decided to self-edit. I go through my manuscript in cycles, editing as I draft and then going through the manuscript again a couple more times after the story is complete. I use a combination of Grammarly and Hemmingway editing programs as well and have a proofreader. My books have never been dissed for editing, so I'm taking that as a good sign. The only time I ever had to rewrite an entire book was when the editor I hired took my voice out and basically ruined the manuscript.

Another thing that works for me is brainstorming a bit about what/who I'm going to write about then start the drafting process. I must experience drafting in the same way I would reading a novel: everything has to be a surprise. This is the only way I am able to finish writing a book otherwise I lose interest.

[Cathleen]

With dragons too so I'll be guaranteed at least two sales.

Okay, I thought of something else I've learned. A dragon on the cover is a definite draw.

Dragon Hoard and Other Tales of Faerie is the first book I published, which automatically gives it a bit of a disadvantage in terms of experience, although I did go back and edit it again--twice--when I'd learned some more things. And it's a collection, which gives it a smaller readership than a novel. And it's free--anyone can get a copy. You don't have to sign up for anything.

However, I get way more people signing up for my email list as a result of advertising that particular book, rather than my newsletter magnet that has a kelpie on the cover (the mythological creature, not the cattle dog)--Stolen Legacy. Please don't smirk at my numbers--I know there are lots of people who have way better ones. My range for email sign-ups off Dragon Hoard is between 21-74 per month. From Stolen Legacy I think my best month was five, even though sign-ups are the only way to get that book.

Dragons sell. There seems to be a steady, non-fad related demand for dragon books (these numbers are good for the past two years). They would probably work fine in Victorian England or just about anywhere else you put them.