Author Topic: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic  (Read 11674 times)

Hopscotch

“Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« on: September 15, 2021, 12:46:09 PM »
A poorly researched article but a good point:

“…Building a larger market for ebook reading wouldn’t just mean winning over haters like me. That doesn’t even make sense, because I’m just not interested in reading more of the books that are most compatible with current ebook hardware and software. Instead, it would entail a whole new digital interpretation of books. Maybe entirely new lines of devices, similar to the attempt Amazon made with the Kindle DX, but successful. The possibilities are obvious, yet nobody has bothered to pursue them: Ebook readers can’t show a two-page spread—there are smartphones that fold for some reason, but no ebook that does, following the model that the Roman wax tablets set two millennia ago. Bookmarking and highlighting remain the only counterparts to dog-earing and marginalia. Skimming through pages, the foremost feature of the codex, remains impossible in digital books.

“Why? Amazon would stand to benefit from the hardware sales, book sales, and incremental platform lock-in that more diverse ebook experiences could provide. An Amazon rep told me that the company focused on making the device “disappear in our customer’s hands.” It doesn’t seem to have considered the idea that an ebook design makes implicit claims about what a book is and should be. “We’ve been thoughtful,” Amazon continued, “about adding only features and experiences that preserve and enhance the reading experience.” The question of whose experience doesn’t seem to come up….”

https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2021/09/why-are-ebooks-so-terrible/620068/
 

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Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2021, 12:53:44 PM »
Ebook readers can’t show a two-page spread—there are smartphones that fold for some reason, but no ebook that does, following the model that the Roman wax tablets set two millennia ago. Bookmarking and highlighting remain the only counterparts to dog-earing and marginalia. Skimming through pages, the foremost feature of the codex, remains impossible in digital books.

What a load of crap!

Whoever wrote that has obviously never used the kindle app at all, and especially not used Page Flip, which is especially designed to see 2 pages side by side, and skim rapidly through pages.

And the rest of it is using Trad statistics and claiming they indicate a decline in eBooks.

Typical Trad based hatchet job.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 12:57:00 PM by TimothyEllis »
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LilyBLily

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2021, 01:01:08 PM »
Since I spent much of my youth borrowing books from the public library, I never, ever mark up a book. I also feel no need to. Dog-earing? Certainly not. The writer is talking for a subset of readers only--a subset that is not respectful of books at all.

I'll go a bit further and say that genre readers in particular (and I am one) do not read hoping to find a felicitous phrase that speaks to the entire human condition to highlight or a foolish statement with which to argue fiercely in the margin. I don't write angry glosses on books; I dump them.

I do agree that being able to page through a printed book rapidly that is irritating me is a little difficult with an ebook--but not impossible; I simply use the Go To function and skip chapters. Works like a charm.
 
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The Bass Bagwhan

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2021, 09:29:48 PM »
An article probably typed on an Olivetti, by candlelight while listening to the phonogram...
 
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Maggie Ann

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2021, 10:23:30 PM »
 :icon_rofl:
           
 

Crystal

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2023, 05:22:07 AM »
I don't think it's disrespectful to mark a book you own. A library book, yes, but if you own a book, then writing in the margins, highlighting, dog-earing is simply making it your own.

I know eBooks are mostly a genre market, but as a big non-fiction reader, I would *love* more ways to interact with the book. Non-fiction is a pretty bad experience on my e-ink Kindle. I can't zoom into charts, I can't easily flip to appendences, I can't write complex notes (even short notes are a pain). I can highlight, but even that is annoying, and I end up highlighting super long sections bc I can't continue summarize with highlights the way I could on paper.

I would buy more paper non-fiction but the print is just too small!
 

She-la-te-da

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2023, 09:52:33 PM »
Quote
following the model that the Roman wax tablets set two millennia ago

Um. Really? There's a reason we don't have wax tablets anymore, for gods' sakes.

I don't write in books, even ones I own, I don't dog-ear pages, or use highlighters. But others do, and as long as they paid for the book, who am I to say they're wrong? (Even if they are wrong, but opinion.)

As usual, the trad pub folks are trying to drag us back to the dark ages, when they were king and ruled all writers. Bah. I started reading digital on my Palm TX, and I loved it. Now on a Fire (I can't see stuff on the phone), and still print books often, especially research/nonfiction.
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Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2023, 12:29:51 AM »
I'm another person who doesn't write in books. But I understand why people do. However, every time I open an ebook in the Kindle for PC app, I get hit with an offer to show me how to use some kind of notetaking in it. That kind of thing seems to be becoming more sophisticated.

It's also worth noting that ebooks are more environmentally sound. Yes, the ereader itself has a carbon footprint, but the estimate I read suggests that 20 ebooks if about the break-even point. Beyond that, you are helping to save the environment, at least on the manufacturing end. (Electricity is, of course, another issue, but if you're in an area with reasonably clean power, that's not much of a factor.


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Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2023, 12:53:14 AM »
(Electricity is, of course, another issue, but if you're in an area with reasonably clean power, that's not much of a factor.

Or you have solar which does the charging.
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Hopscotch

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2023, 12:58:51 AM »
It's also worth noting that ebooks are more environmentally sound.

Call me old-fashioned but I suspect libraries are even more environmentally sound than ebooks, despite maintenance of bricks & mortar/etc for 50 or 150 years.  I don't mark up books b/c I want to come at them fresh each re-read.  Tho' enjoy reading comments in used books I buy.
 

Post-Doctorate D

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2023, 03:03:41 AM »
Paper books don't require mining toxic heavy metals, such as cobalt, for their manufacture or use.  Additionally, how much child labor is used in the book printing business compared with mining metals for lithium-ion batteries and other electronic components?

Paper books do not require electricity each time you read them.

A paper book can be manufactured once and last a hundred or more years.  If you don't want to read a paper book again, it can be resold or given away.  How long is an ereader going to last?  How long will its batteries last?

As for solar, you can read a paper book by sunlight and that doesn't involve any toxic chemicals, unless you've possibly applied sunscreen.  Solar panels, on the other hand, release toxic chemicals during their manufacture and disposal.  There are also reports of forced labor and child labor used in mining for polysilicon commonly used in solar panels.
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LBL

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2023, 03:43:30 AM »
Even better than both are extemporaneous audiobooks... er, uh... conversations. Though, environmentally the hot air expelled during consumption may prove detrimental, so - yeah... choose your sources, or "publishers", wisely.
 

Post-Doctorate D

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2023, 04:01:52 AM »
Even better than both are extemporaneous audiobooks... er, uh... conversations. Though, environmentally the hot air expelled during consumption may prove detrimental, so - yeah... choose your sources, or "publishers", wisely.

Enjoy extemporaneous audiobooks in the daytime in the presence of plants and there is no negative environmental impact.
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2023, 12:34:12 AM »
Paper books don't require mining toxic heavy metals, such as cobalt, for their manufacture or use.  Additionally, how much child labor is used in the book printing business compared with mining metals for lithium-ion batteries and other electronic components?

Paper books do not require electricity each time you read them.

A paper book can be manufactured once and last a hundred or more years.  If you don't want to read a paper book again, it can be resold or given away.  How long is an ereader going to last?  How long will its batteries last?

As for solar, you can read a paper book by sunlight and that doesn't involve any toxic chemicals, unless you've possibly applied sunscreen.  Solar panels, on the other hand, release toxic chemicals during their manufacture and disposal.  There are also reports of forced labor and child labor used in mining for polysilicon commonly used in solar panels.
All of these are important points.

That said, advances in technology may eventually much reduce or eliminate toxic chemicals from the equation. For instance, German researchers have already developed non-lithium batteries for electric cars. Anyway, to follow the logic of your argument, environmentally it sounds as if we shouldn't be working toward renewable energy. The reality is that people aren't going to give up electricity. So we either find environmentally sound ways to harness alternative energies like solar, or we end up stuck with fossil fuels.

For an explanation of the points in favor of ebooks over paper, see https://ecobravo.co.uk/blogs/blog/7-surprisingly-amazing-environmental-benefits-of-e-books

As for the use of slave and child labor, we need to attack the cause, not the symptom. Suppose we eliminate the need to mine polysilicon altogether. Which outcome is most likely? That the operator frees all the slaves--and gives them a nice payment so that they can get themselves set up for a decent life, that the operator cuts loses by exterminating the slave labor force, or that the operator finds another use for slave labor? I wish it was the first possibility, but it's much more likely to be the second or third. What we really need is an international determination to stop slave labor, backed up by requirements that companies at each point in the distribution chain check to ensure they aren't buying slave-produced goods. Companies that screw up can be banned from business until they correct the problem. (Yes, it's going to take time to set something like that up and require lots of dedication to keep it going. But it's the only way slave labor is going to end.



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Post-Doctorate D

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2023, 02:35:40 AM »
For instance, German researchers have already developed non-lithium batteries for electric cars.

Then why not stop using lithium batteries in electric vehicles until environmentally better alternatives are available?  It can take anywhere from 1 to 6 years before an electric vehicle comes out ahead of a ICE car in terms of carbon emissions.  And that's just carbon emissions.  That's not factoring in the heavy metals and such used in the production of the electric vehicle's batteries.  On top of that, when electric vehicles catch on fire, the fires are more difficult to put out and release a lot more toxic chemicals into the air.  So, if better batteries are right around the corner, it would make environmental sense to stop producing and selling electric vehicles with lithium batteries until better alternative power sources are available.

Additionally, the weight of the batteries in electric vehicles wear out tires faster than ICE vehicles.  That means more rubber and other chemicals in tires are being released into the environment.  That increased weight also reduces the longevity of roads which requires more maintenance, repair and/or replacement.  And since asphalt is petroleum-based, that means more petroleum is going to be used.

These electric vehicles require mining heavy metals for their batteries and other electronic components, they require frequent charging which is likely provided by an electric plant that generates electricity by use of "fossil fuels" and their weight reduces the longevity of their tires and roadways which mean more frequent replacement which requires the use of petroleum.  So, the environmental gain is what, exactly?  Out of sight, out of mind, maybe?  Since you're not pumping gas into the vehicle, you can pretend you're reducing "fossil fuel" consumption?

If the environment is an actual concern, it would make sense to wait until better technology is available.


Anyway, to follow the logic of your argument, environmentally it sounds as if we shouldn't be working toward renewable energy. The reality is that people aren't going to give up electricity. So we either find environmentally sound ways to harness alternative energies like solar, or we end up stuck with fossil fuels.

For an explanation of the points in favor of ebooks over paper, see https://ecobravo.co.uk/blogs/blog/7-surprisingly-amazing-environmental-benefits-of-e-books

Their "save the trees" claim is misleading.  Many paper companies own their own tree farms that they manage. After trees are harvested, new ones are planted.  So, there is a continual cycle of planting and harvesting trees for paper production.

As for waste and resources, what of the server farms used to store and sell eBooks?  They think an eBook only takes up a tiny bit of space on an ereader?  What about the server it came from before they downloaded it?  Think of all the computers in the server farm made of metal, silicon, rare earth elements and other materials that were mined and produced to build them?  What of the water used to cool server farms?  Air conditioning units?  Electrical power?  And the cables used to connect the computers and provide power?

Paper, pulp and printing accounts for an estimated 0.9% of greenhouse gas emissions worldwide.  Data centers account for anywhere between 1% and 4% of global greenhouse emissions and growing.  So, at best, their greenhouse gas emissions are roughly the same as the paper, pulp and printing industry.  At worst, they are responsible for as much as four times more.  And that doesn't include the carbon footprint of ereaders, personal computers or other devices that might be used to read an eBook.


What we really need is an international determination to stop slave labor, backed up by requirements that companies at each point in the distribution chain check to ensure they aren't buying slave-produced goods. Companies that screw up can be banned from business until they correct the problem. (Yes, it's going to take time to set something like that up and require lots of dedication to keep it going. But it's the only way slave labor is going to end.

Getting certain countries to agree to anything like that is going to be the greatest challenge.
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Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2023, 06:13:56 AM »
It's clear you've been thinking a lot about the underlying issues. Your arguments are very well-developed.

It's true EVs aren't perfect, by any means. But I did notice you don't have the same kind of comparative data that you use for ebooks vs print books when you talk about EV vs. ICE. So here it is: https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/environmental-impact-of-evs-vs-gas-cars Bottom line: for all their flaws, EVs are still better than ICE environmentally. That gap will widen as the technology improves. It's not clear that ICE can improve in the same way. ICE certainly work better environmentally than they did in the beginning, but I don't know if there's much room for additional improvement.

Also, the comparison between carbon emissions for book publishing vs. ebooks isn't really a fair comparison because you a very focused emission figure (0.9% for paper pulp and printing) vs. a general figure that covers all data center activity (1-4%). The question is, how much of that data center activity is caused by ebooks? I can't find a figure, but it's certainly far less than the total amount.

On the other hand, a recent article, using different figures than the ones I've seen before, makes the choice sound like more of a toss-up (break-even point is around 40 books rather than 20. Occasional readers should definitely go paper. https://commercialwaste.trade/e-readers-vs-books-better-environment/

For someone like me, who uses the PC app on the computer to read ebooks and lives in an area where most of the electricity is not generated by fossil fuels, the carbon footprint is definitely lower. (Yes, I'd have the computer regardless of whether or not ebooks existed.) But I'll concede that everyone's situation is not the same.

Personally, I love paper and own an enormous number of paper books. For me, the breaking point was storage space, which became an issue at about the time ebooks were emerging. For some research purposes, it's also faster to search an ebook than a paper one. In addition, it may be easier to find an ebook (all in the same place) than remember where a particular print book is. These are also issues the article that started the thread doesn't really address.


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Post-Doctorate D

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2023, 08:09:32 AM »
It's true EVs aren't perfect, by any means. But I did notice you don't have the same kind of comparative data that you use for ebooks vs print books when you talk about EV vs. ICE. So here it is: https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/environmental-impact-of-evs-vs-gas-cars Bottom line: for all their flaws, EVs are still better than ICE environmentally. That gap will widen as the technology improves. It's not clear that ICE can improve in the same way. ICE certainly work better environmentally than they did in the beginning, but I don't know if there's much room for additional improvement.
[Emphasis added.]

That's been an argument for a lot of things and it doesn't always work out.

Take recycling, for example.  The push for recycling paper began in earnest in the 90s.  It was known back then that virgin paper had a lower environmental impact than recycled paper.  To recycle paper, the paper had to be collected, it had to be transported, it had to be cleaned and processed and then made into paper again.  It was actually worse to recycle paper than produce new paper, but the push continued for recycled paper because, it was argued, as recycling increased, the collection, transportation and processing and such would be less impactful and, eventually, be better.  Well, here we are some thirty years later and it's not much better.  The article you posted a link to earlier basically concedes that paper recycling only keeps paper out of landfills but still has a negative impact on the environment.

So, that's what I'm mindful of here with electric vehicles.  The lithium batteries alone are problematic on multiple levels from their production to the rigors of actual use.  Plus, our electric grid isn't equipped to deal with an influx of electric vehicles.  Likely by the time any infrastructure may be in place to deal with lithium batteries on a large scale, new technology may have emerged that makes them obsolete.

A lot of what goes into producing "green" energy is far from green and safe.  I think it makes sense to rethink and possibly put a pause on some of these things until better technology is available.


Also, the comparison between carbon emissions for book publishing vs. ebooks isn't really a fair comparison because you a very focused emission figure (0.9% for paper pulp and printing) vs. a general figure that covers all data center activity (1-4%). The question is, how much of that data center activity is caused by ebooks? I can't find a figure, but it's certainly far less than the total amount.

That's true but it's difficult to find a figure just for eBooks.  And, still, the data center infrastructure is required to support eBooks.  When a book is printed, it's only using resources while it is printed.  When it's done, it's done.  Flipping pages to read it, that's all you.  You can power yourself with fruits and vegetables.  With the data centers, those are running 24/7/365.  And, every time you want to read an eBook, you will need electricity.  With a paper book, you only need electricity to read at night or indoors in a windowless room.

Printing presses existed before electricity, as did paper mills.  So, while extremely rare these days, a paper book could be produced entirely without electricity.  The typesetting would take a long time because you'd have to go back to wood or metal type, but it's possible.

Try running a data center without electricity.  :hehe


Personally, I love paper and own an enormous number of paper books. For me, the breaking point was storage space, which became an issue at about the time ebooks were emerging. For some research purposes, it's also faster to search an ebook than a paper one. In addition, it may be easier to find an ebook (all in the same place) than remember where a particular print book is. These are also issues the article that started the thread doesn't really address.

I still prefer paper books but eBooks definitely have advantages.  I just don't think we should pretend the environment is one of them.  As you said, they are easier to search.  Plus, you can adjust the text size to your liking.  And you can use "dark mode" too if that's your thing.  And it's easier to take your entire library with you where ever you go.
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2023, 01:30:50 AM »
You've certainly given me some things to think about.

I'll just add that the fact that some predictions about environmental improvements didn't come true doesn't necessarily mean that none of them will. I'll also repeat the part before the part you bolded, "EVs are still better than ICE environmentally." So even if the technology doesn't improve as fast as we'd like, it's still better than the alternatives.

All of that said, it's certainly true that we can't always predict what will happen next technologically. It's good to keep our minds open to new information. Perhaps green energy will improve. Perhaps the way we use fossil fuels will improve. Perhaps we'll end up with an option not even visualized today.


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cecilia_writer

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2023, 01:46:09 AM »
But there must be economies of scale (in the environmental sense) with ereaders, because you could potentially read 1,000s or maybe millions of ebooks on one before it wore out, and then the data centres that are needed are used for lots of other purposes simultaneously so you can't say the whole environmental cost of them is on ebooks.... Not that I know any of the figures!
We are also in a place where a lot of our electricity now comes from renewable sources, and I don't think ereaders use a lot of it compared to other devices anyway.
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TimothyEllis

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Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2023, 01:49:02 AM »
All of that said, it's certainly true that we can't always predict what will happen next technologically. It's good to keep our minds open to new information. Perhaps green energy will improve.

My own experience with solar suggests that adding whirligig style wind generators to a roof with solar and batteries, would in a lot of places mean the battery never runs flat. Where I am, if I could 3mhz of wind energy to augment the solar during the night, I'd rarely ever have a run out battery.

If every house had that, it would completely change the power grid requirements.

Alas, wind generators are too big and too noisy. For now.

I keep looking at them though, because it's very rare where I am to not have wind when it's cloudy.
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cecilia_writer

Re: “Ebooks Are an Abomination” – The Atlantic
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2023, 02:25:02 AM »
All of that said, it's certainly true that we can't always predict what will happen next technologically. It's good to keep our minds open to new information. Perhaps green energy will improve.

My own experience with solar suggests that adding whirligig style wind generators to a roof with solar and batteries, would in a lot of places mean the battery never runs flat. Where I am, if I could 3mhz of wind energy to augment the solar during the night, I'd rarely ever have a run out battery.

If every house had that, it would completely change the power grid requirements.

Alas, wind generators are too big and too noisy. For now.

I keep looking at them though, because it's very rare where I am to not have wind when it's cloudy.

Yes, here in Scotland we can depend more on wind than sun. Though much of our electricity is from hydro power too.
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