What's your thoughts on page length for a book series?

[alhawke]

I'm experimenting with the idea of writing 100 page series books , maybe three or four, with rapid release. Maybe KU? I want to stay away from Vella (cause of all the neg press I've heard), so I'm wondering if this is feasible for Amazon release?

I've seen some writers write 150 page books. 150 is a sweet spot for BookBub acceptance.

Back when I started, 300 page novels on average was pretty expected. But I recall the day of reading loads of classics that are less than 200 pages pushing novella side. And I've written some novellas myself, which sell primarily because of the lead novels, but this would be a planned project.

So... is such a project a good or bad idea. I don't want to get going on it to find it was a waste of time.
(for my project, it'd be time travel romance/paranormal romance & fantasy)

For me, it'd be like switching gears and working on short stories, like more TV series length stuff.

[TimothyEllis]

Pages means nothing.

How many words?

How often releasing?

How far in advance will they be on pre-order?

What genre?

[alhawke]

Time travel romance/paranormal fantasy/romance
I was thinking 100 pages would be about... 25,000 words
Probably rapid release q 2 weeks
Don't know about pre-order. I'd work on it like a long novel and get it all done before release so there wouldn't be much follow up books.

[TimothyEllis]

Time travel romance/paranormal fantasy/romance
I was thinking 100 pages would be about... 25,000 words
Probably rapid release q 2 weeks
Don't know about pre-order. I'd work on it like a long novel and get it all done before release so there wouldn't be much follow up books.

That will look like milking.

Are they going to be serial? Or completely separate stories with a joining theme?

Serial would simply be better to run them to 60k words each. Even if you did a part 1, part 2 thing, the novel length will sell better than the novellas.

Stand alones would possibly work though. But you'd want pre-orders on the first one to get any traction at all.

[alhawke]

Thanks, Timothy. I'm planning future projects and looking at what to turn my attention to next. My original novel, Shades, was made up of full shorts in my head with the main character. It's probably the most action adventure I've devised and could easily be transformed into a multiple short story action format. I'd sell each 'short' at 99c a piece. The idea is to run books more like TV series. Each short story has its beginning and end. All covers would be made in advance and similar to one another. And I could transform the normal time I write a novel into a short story trilogy. I'd tag it to the first novel, Shades.

Just an idea--it's not intentionally "milking", it's artistically a way to put out my story the way it was initially intended in my head. At least, that's my intention. But if it runs the risk of it being interpreted as playing the system, then, yeah, I won't do it. I've done novellas and they do okay in series. But most are much longer. This plan would lead to far shorter stories in series.

[Lorri Moulton]

I write what's in my head.  When I finish this last fairytale (which is novelette length) I'm going to go back to some WW2 fiction that I envision as a series of short stories that follows one family through the war. 

I don't want to spend years on this project, and I see it as a series of photographs in a scrapbook. Every genre has different expectations, but the one upside to my branding is that I can pretty much write what I want.  I don't make a ton of money doing it, but that's not why I write.

Decide why you want to do this series.  KU won't pay much for short page reads, so that's one consideration...and 99c won't pay you much in Amazon.  If this project is important to you, it can always be a way to bring readers to your other stories.

[Post-Crisis D]

For whatever it's worth, and it may possibly be not a lot, my best selling novel is 32k and the second best is 45k.  My third best selling fiction is a short story collection that totals just under 15k.  My other three novels (85k, 256k and 191k) combined have sold fewer books than the 15k short story collection.

I would stick with the timeless advice that a story should be as long or as short as it needs to be.  Don't write for the algorithms.  Write to tell a compelling story.

[Bill Hiatt]

Am I understanding your correctly? Are your shorts going to be like like Shades in terms of general feel? (I'd assume that.) but

It's probably the most action adventure I've devised and could easily be transformed into a multiple short story action format

makes it sound a little as if you're breaking up the original novel into smaller pieces and now selling them separately. The former could be made to work. The latter really does sound like gaming the system, though I may be misunderstanding the quoted sentence.

Assuming that you intend the former, you're right to stay out of Vella, which a lot of readers are coming to regard as a rip-off (people pay more for the individual pieces than they would have for a book of comparable length.)

I'm not sure how well $0.99 shorts sell anymore, though novellas should do better than short stories.

If the novellas have logical chapter breaks, you could always use them as a way to try out Substack. There are lots of novellas there, but 25,000 words is going to be too big for one post. Something like 5,000 per post is probably better, so they'd end up as shorter episodes than you were originally thinking. But if there are good break points within, that should still work. (I've done posts over 6,000. Much more than that, though, and the email version gets truncated, so people have to click to read the rest.)

That gives you three pathways after that, depending on whether or not Substack seems to have value for you.

If it has no value for you, delete the material from Substack and publish via KDP as originally intended.

If it has value, and you're willing to forego KU, then stick the novellas behind a paywall and publish to other outlets as you would normally. You can then repeat the same pattern with other material if you want.

If it has value, but you want to republish in KU, you're going to have to remove the material from Substack (presumably filling the gap with other material as time goes on. This can be tricky, but people do it, and if you're upfront with subscribers about the fact that the material isn't always going to be there, you should be all right.

[alhawke]

makes it sound a little as if you're breaking up the original novel into smaller pieces and now selling them separately. The former could be made to work. The latter really does sound like gaming the system, though I may be misunderstanding the quoted sentence.

No, I'd be creating totally new content, but writing the other books as 100 page short stories (3 or 4 more books). I'd leave Shades alone and use it as an intro book into this connected series.

[The Bass Bagwhan]

For a long time — and I've seen little to change this opinion — short books of that kind of length have always been a difficult sell. It's the perception that they're not value for money, or not a journey (for the reader) worth embarking upon because it'll be over before you know it.

I wish things were different, because I do like the idea of a premise that focuses on a single story arc. As Bill suggested, you might be better off serialised it on Substack before bringing it together into a larger, full novel.

[PJ Post]

Short stories, novelettes and novellas don't sell easily. Ongoing serials can.

It's all about the branding and establishing expectations - going off script can be problematic.

___

On a side note, releases just need to be consistent, they don't need to be 'rapid'. Fighting the algos is like tilting at windmills.

___

The other problem, like Bill noted, is pricing. $2.99 is a big ask these days for not-novels, but anything less cuts your royalty rate in half, which leaves way too much money on the table.

But, as was also mentioned, what is the goal? Sales? Awareness? Brand development? Repositioning? Advertising?

Different goals have different strategies, which may require different distribution platforms.

[Bill Hiatt]

Yeah, twelve years ago, i used to sell shorts (short stories, though, so not quite the same thing). Now, they sell once in a blue moon.

Short stories still make decent reader magnets if you want to build an email list. A short story anthology works, particularly if the short stories are already related. A novella might work if sufficiently connected to a longer product or series. A serialized novella will work if the audience is used to such things. (Substack is not the only option for that, by the way. It's just the one I'm the most familiar with.

[TimothyEllis]

Yeah, twelve years ago, i used to sell shorts (short stories, though, so not quite the same thing).

KU v1 made the short sexy.

KU v2 killed them off.

They've never really performed since then.

[Vijaya]

I love a tightly written story. I was looking through some of my older books and a lot of them are around 150 pages, some at 200 pages. Nowadays, so many are upwards of 300 pages and they're not better stories. Just bloated. I say, go for your 100 page stories, or whatever length they have to be. And if they're in a series, if readers fall in love with the first, they'll follow you through the entire series.

[alhawke]

But, as was also mentioned, what is the goal? Sales? Awareness? Brand development? Repositioning? Advertising?

Really the goal was changing direction and trying something new. Putting on my marketing hat, I thought another series could help branding and awareness. And it could help in sales for my initial book. On the artistic side, I felt like this is one world where a serial/short story series could do well.

Thanks for everyone's advice ^^. Your opinions kind of put a damper on my plans, tbh. Primarily, the success of such an endeavor sounds grim. But that's good info cause I'm still in planning stages. When we plan a novel, or a project like this, it's a good three to four months of time.

I'm weighing options.

[writeway]

I don't know your genre but I write erotica and romance and authors do great with shorts, including me. I used to write novels but around 5 years ago switched to novellas and shorts because novels took too much time to write and the shorter books made better money because I could get them out faster. Plus, I didn't wanna be bogged down in a long novel. I used to write books that averaged around 75,000-80,000 words but my interests changed as a reader and writer. I don't like to read long books anymore either. The books I write now range from 3,000-word shorts to 40,000-word novellas and the majority of m books make the Top 100 and many stay there for months if not years. I am in KU too so it's a myth that you can't do well with short books in KU. There are romance authors who only write shorts who are killing it in KU and getting millions of page reads a month.

I do fine with shorts. Other authors do too so my advice is to write the length you want. There are millions of readers who only read short books. It's a new world and many people are busy these days and don't have time to sit around reading doorstoppers. Shorts and novellas are perfect for those on-the-go or who don't have a lot of time to devote to reading. Some people just want a quick satisfying read they can finish in one or two sittings. You can look on Amazon and see tons of authors writing short books.

Anything can sell if people wanna buy it. It's not the length to worry about. I have a romance series where each book is around 3,000 words. Yep, and these are whole stories, just tiny. It's a little plot and everything. I don't even promote it and it gets great reviews and sales. It's a billionaire romance series.

[TimothyEllis]

I don't know your genre but I write erotica and romance and authors do great with shorts, including me.

Erotica is a completely different ball game. It commands 2.99 for shorts when everything else commands 99c.

What works for erotica won't work for sci-fi or fantasy.

Romance has it's own rules as well, but it's not erotica either.

If shorts are working for you, what price are you putting on how many words in what exact genre? Details matter.

[Bill Hiatt]

It's true that different genres get different results. I can understand why both romance and erotica do better with shorts than some others might. Some time ago, I recall interacting with an erotica author who did mostly shorts. The person priced everything at $0.99 and still made $30,000 a month. That was a few years ago, but it seemed extraordinary even then.

[alhawke]

I don't know your genre but I write erotica and romance and authors do great with shorts, including me. I used to write novels but around 5 years ago switched to novellas and shorts because novels took too much time to write and the shorter books made better money because I could get them out faster.

Interesting... I'd have to put more spice in the mix in the planning then. The original intention was to do more action adventure/fantasy. But my novels are romance/fantasy blends so, if I feel inclined to proceed, I could add in a mix of romance in this project. Thanks for the insight!

[Lorri Moulton]

If you get the first book (whatever length) into some promos, any length story can do well.  I sold the bits and pieces of my last fairytale, as I was writing it, after the book before it was in a big fantasy promo. 

I'm a fan of trying it to see if it works.  If it does not, you can always use them for reader magnets or some other form of marketing...or put them together and sell as a complete series, etc.

If it doesn't work, you have alternatives.  If it does work, a lot of authors will be trying the same thing.