Is this racist or going to open me up to charges of culture misappropriation?

[Becca_Price]

I have a character who is what is now called early modern human but what used to be Cro-Magnon. In all the reconstructions I've seen, they're shown with moderately dark skin, but straight-ish (not kinky) hair and modern European features. I'm writing up my character studies, and I'm trying hard to think of a way to describe him that won't be taken as racist or somehow being accused of cultural appropriation. The other two would-be heroes are white: one from Wales, and one modern day soldier - my Cro-Magnon turns out to be the main hero - the other two fail in various ways. Is it going to cause me problems if my heroine's skin is very pale white (she's The Moon Herself's granddaaughter), and her primary hero has dark brown skin?

[R H Auslander]

It's your book, you are the author. Why worry? 

[Paranormal Kitty]

I had to google cro-magnon, but apparently they aren´t called that anymore:

https://www.thoughtco.com/upper-paleolithic-modern-humans-173073
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_early_modern_humans

Also seems like they were European? Anyway I wouldn´t worry about cultural appropriating them since they are not around anymore to complain.

[Becca Mills]

I have this vague memory of recent genetic sequencing on some Cromagnon remains showing dark skin and light eyes, but I could be making that up. I'll see if I can find the thing I remember reading.

ETA: Here's the piece I remembered. The human remains were not that old, though (10,000 years).

[JRTomlin]

I have a character who is what is now called early modern human but what used to be Cro-Magnon. In all the reconstructions I've seen, they're shown with moderately dark skin, but straight-ish (not kinky) hair and modern European features. I'm writing up my character studies, and I'm trying hard to think of a way to describe him that won't be taken as racist or somehow being accused of cultural appropriation. The other two would-be heroes are white: one from Wales, and one modern day soldier - my Cro-Magnon turns out to be the main hero - the other two fail in various ways. Is it going to cause me problems if my heroine's skin is very pale white (she's The Moon Herself's granddaaughter), and her primary hero has dark brown skin?

There will certainly be people who will point out that genetic evidence indicates that the European early modern humans had dark skin similar to that of the Ainsu people. I really don't understand why you would want to change their racial characteristics. I am trying to avoid the assumption that you would do this for racist reasons, but it is puzzling. 

If it is fantasy, probably not many will care. If it is historical fiction, I assure you that there will be people who will care and will say so in reviews.

[Becca_Price]

I just don't want to step on anybody's toes.

Thanks for the article - it is very helpful.

[Max]

I haven't read this book in ages, but I think maybe she was a blond woman and her mate was a dark-skinned guy that was... nnnyeah, I don't remember what he was, but one was Neanderthal and one wasn't. Or something like that. Of course, the book is old, and they don't use the same terms today possibly, it would seem perhaps, but you get the idea.

Clan of the Cave Bear
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clan_of_the_Cave_Bear

[Paranormal Kitty]

I have this vague memory of recent genetic sequencing on some Cromagnon remains showing dark skin and light eyes, but I could be making that up. I'll see if I can find the thing I remember reading.

ETA: Here's the piece I remembered. The human remains were not that old, though (10,000 years).

Oh, I think I get it now! The issue is because some people don´t know this or it´s controversial, right? I was confused by the question at first.

[guest120]

I just don't want to step on anybody's toes.

Impossible to do in this day and age, I'm afraid. There's a lot of hammer-holders out there at the moment, and your book, like anything else in this culture can and will look like a nail to one of them at any given point, regardless of intention or objective reality.

[Becca Mills]

I have this vague memory of recent genetic sequencing on some Cromagnon remains showing dark skin and light eyes, but I could be making that up. I'll see if I can find the thing I remember reading.

ETA: Here's the piece I remembered. The human remains were not that old, though (10,000 years).

Oh, I think I get it now! The issue is because some people don´t know this or it´s controversial, right? I was confused by the question at first.

Yes, I guess so. Unless "Cheddar Man" was anomalous, it seems Europeans became lighter-skinned much more recently than many people probably realize.

I'm guessing Becca is concerned about the kinds of criticism some authors have received for creating characters and/or stories based on groups they don't themselves belong to. There were some big controversies surrounding YA novels last year or the year before. An early European human is not a member of any current racial group, so far as I can see, but if Becca just describes the character's skin color, many readers might automatically think of the character in light of today's racial groupings, generating a risk of accusations of appropriation ... is that it, Becca?

[Becca_Price]

Yes, Becca, that is my concern.  I'm mixing a lot of mythology and anthropology in my book, but mostly for my own pleasure - I don't expect my readers to catch any of the references, but if a reader should catch a referencce, it will enrich the story.  I'm worried that someone who doesn't know about early modern humans would be offended that I have Rudra be the hero of dark-haired dark eyed but pale skinned Ana, or worse yet, some African-Americans might frrl that I'm misusinng their history by having a non-negroid hero with dark skin and blue eyes.

[prolificwriter]

by having a non-negroid hero with dark skin and blue eyes.

 

[Becca_Price]

I wondered about that phrase, but couldn't think of a better wy to put it, and I was thinking anthropologically. My bad choice of words, and I appologise for it.

[NathanBurrows]

It's your book, you are the author. Why worry?

This!

[guest14]

I wondered about that phrase, but couldn't think of a better wy to put it, and I was thinking anthropologically. My bad choice of words, and I appologise for it.

It worries me when a fiction writer feels they have to apologise for having a creative imagination with the ability to wrap it into a story to entertain and inform those who can't. Don't be an apologist. You seem like a nice person so the chances are you would never write or intend anything offensive. Don't second guess yourself and write with confidence. You got this.

[A Fading Street]

I have this vague memory of recent genetic sequencing on some Cromagnon remains showing dark skin and light eyes, but I could be making that up. I'll see if I can find the thing I remember reading.

ETA: Here's the piece I remembered. The human remains were not that old, though (10,000 years).

But all may not be as it seems https://www.newscientist.com/article/2161867-ancient-dark-skinned-briton-cheddar-man-find-may-not-be-true/

I think it would be fair to say that the chances are Cheddar Man had darker skin than the pale skin we see today but there is no real way of knowing for sure exactly what colour skin he had so whatever colour skin the OP want's to use is within the realm of possibility

[WasAnn]

Best evidence out there shows that there was no single skin color and that variety was far more localized than previously thought.

Listen, it comes down to isolation. Early peoples tended to be very localized once they moved into an area, with very little outbreeding for extended periods. Breeding was likely to be in overlapping circles, with several smaller groups within a range of the target group. Those smaller groups had their own circle range...etc. It made localized superficial evolutionary changes rather rapid.

Hair, skin, and eye changes are super fast in genetic terms. They change quicker than just about everything else. Even fingernail changes are slower than those three.

It's very likely that skin tone was actually a very late developer in the first place in terms of humans overall, but once it did, it was constantly on the move.

Many IE peoples were what we *might* call dark skinned, but many were also light, and they shifted as time changed the environment they lived in. Think Indian subcontinent, Native America (startling range within those groups), and the Middle East (more startling ranges).

The rule of thumb is that the longer an environment is low in shortwave radiation, the lighter the skin gets. The longer an environment is high in reflective surfaces, the lighter the eyes get. The colder an environment comes, the thicker and more grease retaining hair gets, as well as greater levels of body and face hair.

So, while Cheddar man is an interesting subject, he's not the end-all, be all of skin. Given that environment at that time during that particular climate, one might expect a person with moderately brown and easily tanned skin, light eyes, and thick hair that lays somewhat flat to the head.

[DrewMcGunn]

A lot of books that I've read where the author is dealing with something where research is... ambiguous will put a "from the author" type addenda at the back of the book, explaining their choice of events/situations/decisions.

If you feel that there's a risk of people overlaying their own perceptions on your choices as a writer (not that it happens much.  ), then I don't see a problem with a brief explanation at the back.

[Bill Hiatt]

I wondered about that phrase, but couldn't think of a better wy to put it, and I was thinking anthropologically. My bad choice of words, and I appologise for it.

It worries me when a fiction writer feels they have to apologise for having a creative imagination with the ability to wrap it into a story to entertain and inform those who can't. Don't be an apologist. You seem like a nice person so the chances are you would never write or intend anything offensive. Don't second guess yourself and write with confidence. You got this.

I agree with the sentiment, though I also see Becca's concern.

I understand and support the desire of traditionally underrepresented groups to want to be included and to not be stereotyped. That said, I'm a lot more conflicted about the desire some have to dictate exactly how (and how much) their group is portrayed. Since groups, though they have a common element, are also composed of diverse individuals, it's natural to expect that their will be variations. I recall a KB thread in which an author with a disability was expressing her distress over criticism of her disabled character because "Disabled people don't act that way."

This is not at all the same thing, but I was once criticized by a blogger because my teenage characters didn't obsess enough over their cell phones. They used their cell phones frequently, but that apparently wasn't enough for the blogger. (I taught high school for thirty-four years and have a fair idea of how teenagers behave. Strangely enough, they vary. Some of them still own cell phones rather than being owned by them.) The same blogger also had a problem with the way I portrayed female characters--one of them was a housewife. Never mind that one of them was also the wisdom figure in the story and that several of them were in battle right next to the guys. That's not the only time I've been knocked based on one character, ignoring what all the other characters in the same group were up to.

Sigh! This is one of those questions to which there is not easy answer.

[Becca Mills]

I have this vague memory of recent genetic sequencing on some Cromagnon remains showing dark skin and light eyes, but I could be making that up. I'll see if I can find the thing I remember reading.

ETA: Here's the piece I remembered. The human remains were not that old, though (10,000 years).

But all may not be as it seems https://www.newscientist.com/article/2161867-ancient-dark-skinned-briton-cheddar-man-find-may-not-be-true/

I think it would be fair to say that the chances are Cheddar Man had darker skin than the pale skin we see today but there is no real way of knowing for sure exactly what colour skin he had so whatever colour skin the OP want's to use is within the realm of possibility

Ah, good to know -- thanks Fading Street! I couldn't get at the meat of the New Scientist article, but I'll track down the info somewhere.

Becca, I think there are two general paths to take on dealing with the kinds of anxieties you're feeling, and which path you choose depends on your outlook.

If you think cultural appropriation is a legit concern, and you want to make sure your book is not harmful on that front, then read up on that complex of issues and think about what you're planning to do. Make changes to your story as you think it needs and gather feedback from others who share your concerns. Once you publish, be prepared to accept negative feedback without defensiveness, if it comes your way. It's difficult to treat other groups from the outside in one's writing without making mistakes or angering someone, so you have to do your honest best, then accept the results as 1) other people's valued right to say what they think and 2) maybe a learning opportunity for you, so your next book can be better. That's my take on it, anyway. There just isn't a "safe" way to write about a fraught, complex issue (race, religion ... there are many) from the outside. There'll always be risk, both to your "brand" and to the group you're writing about. So it should be approached with great care.

Alternatively, if your concerns are more pragmatic -- if you just don't want your book to end up at the center of one of these controversies -- then I'd read about as many of the recent controversies as you can and try to figure out what specifically about each book angered some readers. Then I'd try to make sure your book isn't doing what those books were doing. This is not foolproof, of course; your book could be doing something different that angers readers. But at least you will have guarded against those possibilities.

FWIW, your story, as you've described it, does not remind me of the stories of the books that have generated controversy recently. It sounds to me like you're pretty far into myth/fairy tale mode and are not trying to engage directly with political issues surrounding race in today's world. It doesn't sound to me like you're writing about any real-life modern cultures. It also doesn't sound to me like you're trying to deal with contemporary issues or cultures allegorically.

[munboy]

Without reading the reason behind the question, I'll say anytime you open a question with "Is this racist..." you can 100% guarantee somebody somewhere will find it racist. I'm not saying it IS, I'm saying somebody will perceive it as being that. You have to make the choice whether to move forward or not knowing somebody will take offense.

[veinglory]

I think it's easy to say not to worry about it, but racism blow-ups do happen to authors and it is only sensible to make some effort to avoid them--and to avoid actually writing something racially insensitive.

In this case I think the main thing is to avoid text that links dark skin to being a cave man or savage or any such historic negative stereotype.  Just try to keep descriptions positive and unique and away from things bigots say now about dark skinned people.

[guest14]

In this case I think the main thing is to avoid text that links dark skin to being a cave man or savage or any such historic negative stereotype. 

Now that, is questionably racist! Not that I'm incensed or offended myself, but it's just the kind of stereotypical statement that sets off alarm bells with the 'fashionably offended' brigade. The offended person might state that they're offended because you're linking dark skin to a caveman or a savage - which in a sense is a fair point. (Now where was that sensitivity course that was on here this morning). (A tongue-in-cheek emoji is needed)

[Max]

Sometimes, you just gotta write the book that's in you. Just write it.

Sure there are words that for some are triggers. Sure, there are terms that are no longer in use. God, I remember in the 70s how they'd classify the three races. Today, people would get a horrified look on their faces and start to cough, wondering if the person who's written/said those words is woke.

For me it's about what's in the heart. You're obviously not intending to offend, Becca. So write the book. It's clearly in you and you aren't setting out with the purpose to wound.

[David VanDyke]

Not directly answering the question, but I always like to go to Steven Barnes for these types of questions to help clarify my thoughts, as I find his thoughts remarkably clear, full of goodwill and fairmindedness:

https://stevenbarneslife.wordpress.com/2018/05/08/cobra-kai-and-cultural-appropriation/

[Becca_Price]

fascinating blog post - Thanks, David.

I think I'll just describe Rudra as having burnished mahogany skin, and astonishingly blue eyes. I don't see much need to describe his facial features, so I can just leave that up to the imagination of the reader.

[Trioxin 245]

There is a healthy online community of cro-magnon activist  that will go irate if you do not have every detail correct.  Kidding of course. You are a artist and should express yourself/characters on how you see fit. 

[Becca_Price]

 You scared me for a minute! There are so many fandoms on the internet, that there just might be a cadre of cro-magnon activists!

[Joe Vasicek]

I resent the title of this thread. Speaking as a proud descendant of Danish Vikings, I find any discussion of "cultural appropriation" by someone not of my heritage to be outrageous and culturally insensitive. Cultural appropriation is a long, proud tradition of my people, and rightly belongs to the Vikings and no one else!

[Doglover]

I had to google cro-magnon, but apparently they aren´t called that anymore:

https://www.thoughtco.com/upper-paleolithic-modern-humans-173073
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_early_modern_humans

Also seems like they were European? Anyway I wouldn´t worry about cultural appropriating them since they are not around anymore to complain.

It is rarely the people concerned who take offence, only the people who think they should take offence.

Since nobody has a clue what they looked like, what difference does it make?

[guest14]

It is rarely the people concerned who take offence, only the people who think they should take offence.
Since nobody has a clue what they looked like, what difference does it make?

  I love this emoji. It expresses everything about these forums. 

[Joe Vasicek]

It is rarely the people concerned who take offence, only the people who think they should take offence.

“He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool.” —Brigham Young

[prolificwriter]

I’ve found that the most easily offended are those that are being deliberately offensive. Just call them out on their BS, and they’ll be running for the “safe spaces” they so often ridicule! 

[EB]

I haven't read this book in ages, but I think maybe she was a blond woman and her mate was a dark-skinned guy that was... nnnyeah, I don't remember what he was, but one was Neanderthal and one wasn't. Or something like that. Of course, the book is old, and they don't use the same terms today possibly, it would seem perhaps, but you get the idea.

Clan of the Cave Bear
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clan_of_the_Cave_Bear

Omg, I read that book when I was way to young to be reading that book. It was fascinating, nevertheless.

[Lee Dennis]

Becca, I'm late to this thread, but I want to share a few things.

First, (somebody above must have said this), I don't think there are enough members of Cro-Magnon culture around now to accuse you of anything. If they do, and if they confuse Cro-Magnon with African or African-American, remind them of Branden Jacobs-Jenkins, a black playwright and MacArthur Fellow whose successful play called “Appropriate” is about a white family. Also Kris Rusch, who is white, and her series hero, PI Smokey Dalton.

Second, this story, on the courage to be considered inappropriate: https://tinhouse.com/on-likeability/

Third, why is your Welsh character white – well, pink or pale brown? I seem to recall that only 1200 years ago, about the time of Alfred the Great, the Angles, Saxons, and Danes (definitely my ancestors) in the east of Britain, the area now called England, thought of the Welsh (possibly my ancestors) as short, dirty, and dark, good mostly to be taken as slaves.

Finally, The Moon Herself has a granddaughter? I really want to read your story!

[NCB]

I haven't read this book in ages, but I think maybe she was a blond woman and her mate was a dark-skinned guy that was... nnnyeah, I don't remember what he was, but one was Neanderthal and one wasn't. Or something like that. Of course, the book is old, and they don't use the same terms today possibly, it would seem perhaps, but you get the idea.

Clan of the Cave Bear
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clan_of_the_Cave_Bear

Omg, I read that book when I was way to young to be reading that book. It was fascinating, nevertheless.

I read the series and remember thinking many times how the author was writing out some of her fantasies, and chuckling many times at how one individual managed so many of mankind's great leaps forward from cooking to horse riding. Having said that I did enjoy them enough to buy all of them.

Sorry, going off topic and I have little to add that hasn't already been said.