Author Topic: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?  (Read 20411 times)

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2025, 10:01:57 PM »
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It's true that I, among others, aren't using (in my case) either Substack or Medium as well as I should because that really requires spending advertising money on promoting your posts.
I can't speak directly to Medium, but at least for Substack, it doesn't sell ads in the way that most social media companies do. There's literally not a way to do paid promotion there--unless you mean advertising a link to a Substack post on another social media platform.

Substack visibility does take time, but it needn't take money at all.

Contributing factors include consistent posting (probably at least once a week, though some people do less), getting out the word through Notes (the social media part), interacting with others. The last part is the one that can be a time suck, but it can bear fruit with some patience.

Lately, there are more political trolls. Generally, don't engage. If they get in your face, mute or block and move on. It's quite possible to filter out that noise and focus on serious authors. Substack is not totally transactional. (In fact, I stay away from the subscribe-to-me-and-I'll-subscribe-to-you crowd. We used to do that back in the day to get more social proof such as likes and follows, but it really doesn't lead to lasting engagement.) But even though people don't automatically reciprocate, the old axiom about making friends still holds true--take an interest in what somebody else is doing, and they're more likely to take an interest in you. Take time to read some posts of others each day, and if you like the content, then like, comment, share, whatever. On Notes, the 10-5-1 formula makes sense. (Like ten, comment substantively on five, engage one author directly through DM.) The last part I think can be overly intrusive, but we can substitute post one yourself to complete the 10-5-1 pattern. As a daily habit, that won't take much time, but it will draw more eyeballs. There is some theorizing about Notes being given more of a role in discoverability algorithms, but either way, Notes is the way to reach people who don't yet subscribe.

I've taken a look at some of the Substack growth gurus. They all advocate interaction. None of them, as far as I've seen, advocate paying for advertising on another platform to drive people to Substack. I put info on my Substack in my other newsletter and get a tiny flow from there. I also put up info on my non-Substack website.

Oh, I've mentioned this before, but participating in themed days can help with post views. So can getting yourselves on one of the growing number of fiction lists (Top in Fiction, Library, Bookstore, and the new FicStack. The bookstore is really a collection of links to places like Amazon rather than a separate store, but it's a way to get visibility for your books through Substack. That one does involve a paid subscription, though.)

 


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PJ Post

Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2025, 10:32:09 PM »
A problem for me is that such endeavours and writing/publishing "business models" are, as always, a long game.

I think this is the problem. Most self-publishers want immediate returns, and not all business approaches work that way. Establishing a brand takes time. Social media takes way more, like a year or more to pay off.

Which is why I advocate getting started sooner rather than later.

___

And I hear you about the 'being too late'. I may have some suggestions on that soon, but I don't want to get out over my skis, as they say.

___

--unless you mean advertising a link to a Substack post on another social media platform.

Substack visibility takes time

Contributing factors include consistent posting

...interacting with others. The last part is the one that can be a time suck, but it can bear fruit with some patience.

Substack is not transactional.

[Substack growth gurus] all advocate interaction.

...participating in themed days can help with post views.

So can getting yourselves on one of the growing number of fiction lists...


This should sound pretty familiar. These are literally the same tactics I've been recommending for a few years now, the same ones you guys keep saying don't work because reasons. The other thing I keep saying is that this same methodology works across all social media platforms, which creates synergy, which in turn levels up your brand - same work, better results.

This is how you establish a brand as an Author (Creative) in 2025. This is how you find fans, how you generate demand for your work (Content), how you take control of your career.

 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2025, 11:39:39 PM »
Saying that interacting on Substack bears fruit is not the same as saying that it does on all social media platforms. We've discussed that before. Algorithmic crunch forces paid advertising to get much of anywhere, and it's hard to get a positive ROI from it. One of the reasons Substack still has value is precisely because there is no paid advertising for an algorithm to favor. That's not to say that social media has no value, but at least, its value isn't as much as you claim.

Also, at the risk of being repetitive, when I looked at some of your social media not so long ago, you weren't practicing what you preach. I'm sure that's because of the demands of your day job and not because you don't believe what you're saying. But the point is, you speak authoritatively on something without even having full personal experience with it. Yes, you have studied branding and advertising a lot, clearly. But as I learned in education, practical experience often trumps theory, even when the theory is well founded. That's partly because human behavior is not as predictable as things governed by natural law, like gravity. And there are a huge number of variables.

Is branding important? Yes. Is spending time on every single social medium important? Not necessarily. Companies with large budgets still make it work. Companies that can afford a person to run social media (or even more than one) can still focus on doing things like developing new products without having to sacrifice manpower to social media.

I'd argue that authors experiment, find what works best for them, and then focus their energy there, rather than scattering it across every conceivable medium. That's what I've done. When I started, I got on several platforms and worked them all. in that era, that was actually more worth it. I started dropped them when returns no longer justified time (and money) spent. Facebook is a good example. It used to generate real fans. Now, the same process is much more time consuming, more expensive, and not worth it, at least for me. (Aside from money, I used to spend one and a half to two hours a day curating social media content. It's not as if I haven't given SM an ample chance.)

Here's an interesting case study, however, that shows FB can still be worth it. You all remember Amanda M. Lee, I'm sure. She used to post here. When last she mentioned income, she was making low seven figures a year, so I think we can agree that she's successful. The fact that she's a publishing machine with a new release practically every month may be the foundation of that success. What talent and self-discipline that must take! But she still feels it worthwhile to use FB. https://www.facebook.com/AuthorAmandaMLee/

She's active, but the frequency is lower than what you advocate, PJ (once a month most of the time, more in October) and entirely geared to things like new releases. This seems to be a books-are-the-brand approach. There doesn't seem to be much about her. Her blog, aside from a brief bio, is the same way. Books, books, books, books, books.

That said, about half of her FB posts are short book videos. I imagine she's using a content creator for those, so there would be money involved (or time, if not). These are way more impressive than what I see on the average author page, even from trad authors. If I had the money, I'd be tempted to try a similar approach. But of course, it also helps that she has one or more new releases a month. It's easy to have fresh content if you have fresh books at that frequency. It's not clear that one could achieve a similar level of FB engagement with a less frequent publishing model. We also don't know how much she used FB ads. She could easily be someone who got a fan base when FB is more productive and managed to hold on to it.

 


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The Bass Bagwhan

Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2025, 05:29:26 PM »
First to clarify, yes Bill, I was talking about paid FB ads (for me) that promote any posts on Medium or Substack. I know those platforms don't offer advertising. It's why I mentioned that it didn't really offer a ROI because you're only promoting yourself and your writing without any "Buy" button unless you added links - and we all know how hard it is to convince anyone to click through multiple pages and links. You'd be spending money on building a following and hopefully that eventually translates into sales down the road.

Bill's advice about Substack and Medium was a useful poke for me. Shorter but more frequent posts (obviously with excellent content) should be the way to go to increase engagement rather than trying to impress a smaller audience with longer, clever articles. And returning that engagement too.

A factor is that Medium has a similar model to Kindle Unlimited in that people subscribe and can then either access or provide as a writer material that's behind a paywall (the paywall being the subscription). As a writer you get paid a "per word/page read" rate which is a pittance but can potentially add up over time. Some people claim to be making thousands, of course, but it's not unreasonable to aim for maybe $100 a month if you put your mind to it over the first year or so. I can't explain what voodoo/algorithmic black magic that Medium employs to certify someone has actually read your post - but it's there. FWIW, I've written about eight posts and made something like 0.34 all up, but the learning curve is flattening.

The point being it's tempting to write longer pieces on Medium to get paid more, but then you spend far more time and don't reach as many readers. I have to resist the urge to write long and focus on writing more. Find a schedule and discipline like Bill's 10-5-1 to adopt. And there's no reason I can't duplicate it on Substack and vice-versa. I won't go into details but there are "publications" on Medium that will increase your exposure if you can get them to accept your post as a submitted article, and it's only then that exclusivity is required.

If anyone's interested in Medium, here's a big tip. If you want to write on Medium about any of your favourite subjects, DON'T list in your profile "interests" that you're a writer and interested in writing - just list the other stuff you're interested in. (For me it's humour, horror, music, etc.) Because like many platforms, Medium is an absolute glut of writers, wannabe writers, and writing "experts" who pen endless "How to write" and "10 Things a writer should do" and "What the readers really want..." articles that will infest your Feed/Inbox worse than any Black Plague. Hundreds of the damned things.

You still need content that engages readers - controversial reviews or opinions on TV/Books/Films ... whatever prompts a response. And whack a website link at the end (or Amazon book product page) because you never know, right? I only need to keep things brief and not write an essay. Can't seem to help myself ...

More food for thought for me.
 
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PJ Post

Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2025, 10:48:57 PM »
Also, at the risk of being repetitive...

Sometimes repetition can be enlightening, so no worries. Sometimes it's even necessary.

I think a lot of my recommendations get discussed too granularly. First, we need to step back and see the big picture (the stuff they teach in business school - what self-publishers and Burger King have in common, for example), and then focus on specific tactics relevant to our business models/brands. And just because a strategy works across all social media platforms doesn't mean we should use all of them. Yes, we should use as many as makes sense given our business model and resources, but that doesn't mean all of them. For example, if you're writing LitRPG, Facebook probably won't be all that helpful because the Facebook audience skews older while the LitRPG demographic is typically younger.


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I'd argue that authors experiment, find what works best for them.

I'd argue that most self-publishers (ignoring the black and gray hatters) desperately follow dogmatic forum advice from ten years ago, except the ones still trying to get a traditional deal, they're hanging on to dogmatic advice that predates the internet.

 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2025, 10:53:10 PM »
Bass Bagwhan, It's good that at least one of us is trying Medium. Thanks for that.

How brief posts need to be depends on how much time you have to write and how fast you are. When I'm serializing, I aim for about 2,000 words, but occasionally (as with a first episode), it has occasionally almost hit 6,000. Short stories, of course, can be any length, though Substack is kind of flooded with microfiction. (A lot of that is from people who publish daily and/or people who participate in a lot a challenges ("Write a 500-word story in which the protagonist has amnesia," or something like that.)

Essays (long or short) can also work, and I've done a few, but I find the best posts are fiction (since I'm trying to gain new readers for my fiction).

A word on writing gurus. There are a lot of them on Substack. Many of them actually have good advice. I have noticed a tendency to state something as generic writing advice when it's applicable primarily to nonfiction. But there is quite a bit available for free. (At the other end of the spectrum are people who give discounts on their paid coursework to paid subscribers--that can get pretty expensive.)


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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2025, 10:58:22 PM »
Also, at the risk of being repetitive...

Sometimes repetition can be enlightening, so no worries. Sometimes it's even necessary.

I think a lot of my recommendations get discussed too granularly. First, we need to step back and see the big picture (the stuff they teach in business school - what self-publishers and Burger King have in common, for example), and then focus on specific tactics relevant to our business models/brands. And just because a strategy works across all social media platforms doesn't mean we should use all of them. Yes, we should use as many as makes sense given our business model and resources, but that doesn't mean all of them. For example, if you're writing LitRPG, Facebook probably won't be all that helpful because the Facebook audience skews older while the LitRPG demographic is typically younger.


Quote
I'd argue that authors experiment, find what works best for them.

I'd argue that most self-publishers (ignoring the black and gray hatters) desperately follow dogmatic forum advice from ten years ago, except the ones still trying to get a traditional deal, they're hanging on to dogmatic advice that predates the internet.
I apologize for misunderstanding you. But you have made statements of the everywhere-all-the-time variety that sound an awful lot like people should be on every social media platform. Yes, we need to use those platforms that fit our genre and other considerations best.

As far as the second point is concerned, I'm sure some self-publishers do that. I'm not sure about most. I can think of one example of a guy who seems to be giving outdated advice--but it works for him. He's in nonfiction, however, which is substantially different from fiction. But generally, I see an openness to new approaches, at least among my Substack brethren.


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TimothyEllis

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Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2025, 11:08:45 PM »
what self-publishers and Burger King have in common

Nothing.

You can compare Burger King to Steven King, but not to Indie authors.

I wouldn't even compare the likes of Amanda Lee and Michael Anderle to Burger King.

You could compare me to a fish and chip shop business with a couple of stores.
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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PJ Post

Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2025, 01:09:11 AM »
But you have made statements of the everywhere-all-the-time variety...

I try to remember to throw in the caveat - "without burning out". Most of us don't have staff, so we can only do so much - and still have time to write, right? Which forces us to be selective. For example, some will do way better focusing on Kickstarter than wasting time on Instagram. The toolbox is the same, but the tactics will vary by business model, brand, resources and goals.


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But generally, I see an openness to new approaches, at least among my Substack brethren.

I would argue that they're not the typical self-publisher.

 

Lorri Moulton

Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2025, 02:06:00 AM »
Not Burger King for most of us.  They have national recognition and are competing against McDonald's, Wendy's and a few others.  Not exactly an oligopoly, but close.  Barriers to entry can increase even in a monopolistically competitive market.

For most of us, maybe Joe's local burger place on the end of a long street of burger places?  With the caveat that any and every burger place in the world can also be on that street?

Visibility is what gets overlooked time and again.  We can't become visible just because we post on social media.  It might have been that easy many years ago (when those same gurus were giving out their advice) but as already mentioned, those times are long gone.

How do we get visibility now?  If anyone knew that secret sauce, they'd be making millions.  Anyone not writing fiction to write author-help books...perhaps they've already made their millions and want to help...or they're making more on the author-help books.


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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #60 on: October 17, 2025, 02:43:56 AM »
Small restaurants are hard to make a profit from--just like indie writing careers!

I remember when a small restaurant opened in my area, a rep was going door to door with coupons. None of the large chains have ever done that, though I do occasionally get coupons in the mail from some of them. But of course, the small restaurant can't afford a national ad campaign, and local ad campaigns are hard to manage, particularly if there is no longer a local paper. In other words, yes, there's quite a difference between big businesses and small businesses in terms of visibility, budget, and ad strategy.


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Post-Doctorate D

Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #61 on: October 17, 2025, 02:54:35 AM »
How do we get visibility now?  If anyone knew that secret sauce, they'd be making millions.  Anyone not writing fiction to write author-help books...perhaps they've already made their millions and want to help...or they're making more on the author-help books.

Often the latter.

During the Gold Rush, there were two ways to get rich.  One was to strike gold.  The other was to sell tools to prospectors.

Not everyone looking for gold would find it.  Of those that did find gold, only a small number found enough gold to make them rich.  Meanwhile, everyone looking for gold needed tools for gold prospecting.

There were probably also people that told others the list of tools they needed and told them to take those tools to California to find gold and strike it rich, which was advice generic enough to be true but not specific enough to be practical.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 
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PJ Post

Re: Boosting a FB/Meta post ... GRRR! Anyone had this issue?
« Reply #62 on: October 17, 2025, 04:34:04 AM »
My point about Burger King was that we all follow the same business fundamentals: branding, marketing, production, accounting, microeconomics, distribution channels, supply channels, etc. All businesses use the same toolbox, no matter the industry, no matter how big or how small. Scale has advantages but so does being nimble.

We have to be careful of thinking that basic strategies don't work for us just because a larger or more prominent business also uses them. For example, what can we learn from Adele's European and Vegas residencies? Turns out, even though she's a gazillionaire and most of us are decidedly not, we can learn quite a lot - and I'm talking about actionable strategies here. But to dismiss her out of hand is an active choice to reduce your opportunities and potential for success.

There are always lessons to be learned from folks who do things well.