Is selling mainly from your own retail store a bad idea? What are the pros and c

[Vidya]

Shane from KB is posting articles on how to start your own retail store:

https://lochlann.black/2018/10/12/the-shopify-revolution/

I’m following with interest since I'm considering posting only the first in any series on Amazon and all the rest only on an e-store.

Pros:

1. obviously I keep a far greater share of the royalties.

2. I intend to host both ebooks and audio books in my store and not sell on Audible or any third party audio hosting site such as Findaway. Again I get to keep a far greater share of the royalties.

3. I lessen dependence on Amazon. The next time they screw with us—and they will—it should affect me less since by then I will have trained readers through my mailing list to expect to find only the the first in any series on Amazon. They will know that to get the rest, they will have to buy only from my own e-store.

Cons:

1. obviously I might get less visibility. The more books you have on Amazon, the more visibility you get. On the other hand, as I said, the first in any series will be on Amazon and I will use AMS ads to drive readers to it. Since you cant post links to other stores in your kindle book, at the end of the book, I would say to find out how to get the rest of the series please visit my website.

What other pros and cons can you think of?

[Amanda M. Lee]

Cons: Lazy readers will not go to your store no matter how much they like you. The sheer bulk of readers will simply move on to something else. Many of those readers will give you one stars on the books you do have on Amazon. You will sell less because of poor visibility. You have to deal with individual state taxes, which is essentially begging for an audit.

[Bill Hiatt]

I've read about a few people, mostly in nonfiction, who made significant sales from their own websites, but unless you have thousands of visitors on a normal day, and on average they stay for a significant amount of time, I wouldn't even think about making your own website your exclusive distribution option.

Amanda is right about readers not wanting to jump through an extra hoop to get books. Stephen King was already famous when he tried an experiment with The Plant, providing it to readers through a website on a subscription model basis. His idea was to bypass the publishers and--you guessed it--get higher royalties. What happened? The experiment bombed miserably. He might have had better luck in later years, when online shopping and ebooks had both become more popular, but I think it says something that he hasn't tried. Neither has any big-name author. Some of them have dipped their toe into self-publishing, but none of them have tried to go it on their own from their own websites, even though they have tens of thousands of hits a day.

If I were you, I'd take a good look at your website stats. How many visitors do you actually have? How long do they stay? What pages do they visit? (On my website, the most visited pages are ones related to contests and giveaways.) If you're not seeing huge numbers, don't take the jump.

I also think it's unwise to split series across different vendor options. I have one series wide. All of those books will be wide. The series I have in KU are all in KU. Having a hybrid model within the same series is only going to frustrate people.

[Simon Haynes]

Cons: handling the tax implications.

I ran my own private bookstore for years (ie my own stuff only), with a paypal shopping cart and so on. Wrote all the code myself, and it was all automated and worked just fine.

Trouble is, these days we're all meant to collect taxes and remit them. For example, as I understand it, if someone from a euro nation buys from you, you have to add the correct VAT for their nation and remit it to the tax office in that country.

If you sell to an Australian, you have to add 10% GST and send it to our ATO. For that you need a tax registration number, and ... there are how many countries on the planet?

Even now, when I pay for Facebook ads, and software, they're all starting to add 10% gst on top because I live in Australia.

I'm guessing most small operators don't bother charging and remitting the tax. For me, it all looked like too much of a headache, and it's easier to direct any of my daily 500-900 website visitors who happen to be interested in my work to the major stores.

[NathanBurrows]

I'm guessing most small operators don't bother charging and remitting the tax. For me, it all looked like too much of a headache, and it's easier to direct any of my daily 500-900 website visitors who happen to be interested in my work to the major stores.

Blimey, I wish I had that number of visitors! Don’t want to derail the thread, but how are you getting them there?

To answer the OP question, I think visibility is the main one (hence my question to Simon).

[TimothyEllis]

If you sell to an Australian, you have to add 10% GST and send it to our ATO. For that you need a tax registration number,

You only need a gst registration for 2 things. 1) If you cross the gross sales threshold, which is above 80k last time I looked, and this makes it mandatory to be registered, and 2) if you want to claim back the gst you pay out making those sales.

If you're not grossing 80k a year or more, its not worth the hassle of being registered for gst. But it means you pay it out, without being able to claim it back.

What Facebook are doing, is totally illegal in Australia. Adding 10% if you don't have an ABN means FB have zero understanding of how GST works in Australia. The ABN has nothing at all to do with GST. You need an ABN to be registered for GST, but the GST registration is a different thing entirely. They should be charging the 10% GST to everyone, by including it in the price charged. Those with GST registration get to claim it back, those without dont. Facebook itself doesn't even need to know if you are registered or not, but do need to issue a tax invoice which states how much GST was charged. (If it doesn't have the words 'tax invoice' on it, its illegal.) They should just be collecting it from everyone.

The main thing is, if you're gross sales are less than 80k, you dont need to be registered for gst.

As far as I know, if you're not Australian, you cant even register for GST. Facebook for example has to, because Facebook has an Australian registered company it operates out of in Australia. So does Amazon. Both do more than 80k gross a year through those companies, so both have to be registered for GST here.

I refuse to do FB ads now, until they wise up and start handling GST properly. I dont have an ABN, dont want an ABN, and dont need one. I therefore cant quote one to cater for corporate idiots who think GST is the same as VAT. It's not.

[Simon Haynes]

Blimey, I wish I had that number of visitors! Don’t want to derail the thread, but how are you getting them there?

Short answer: content that people want.

I have two domains that have been around for 20 years. One is for my software, which includes the ywriter novel-writing software. That alone brings in a ton of visitors every day. But I also have another 30-40 programs on my site which I wrote for one task or another, and then shared.

The other domain, for my writing site, has a lot of my articles on it, covering publishing, getting an agent, that kind of thing. All the stuff I picked up over the past 15-20 years.

And, of course, there's some crossover between the sites. For example, I have a banner for my 'how to write a novel' on many of the pages on my software site.

The page URLs haven't changed in all that time, so ancient links from other places still work, and the two sites have over 800 pages between them. I guess the search engines like them, although I saw a big drop in traffic when smartphones became more popular. I couldn't be bothered updating my sites to work on portable devices, although I have fixed that now.

By the way, whenever I link to my books I link to landing pages on my site, not Amazon or apple or whoever.

[guest642]

People think it's easy to sell from their own store, where they get to keep most of the money. In theory yeah, this is preferable. The problem is, as always, visibility. You know why you give Amazon 30% of your money? Because Amazon spends tens of millions (maybe hundreds of millions) a year to get people to their store...and to see your books. That's why.

And also what Amanda said.

Most readers are lazy, and in today's entitled society, they can't be bothered to do any of the work for themselves. When a reader wants to know the reading order of a book, this is how most of them process this problem: "Gee, I can either spend a minute Googling the information for myself, or I can just Facebook message the author and have him tell me!" Some people do the former, but way too many do the latter. WAY too many.

[Bill Hiatt]

Most readers are lazy, and in today's entitled society, they can't be bothered to do any of the work for themselves.

There is certainly truth in this, but I wonder how much different it really is from the past. Let's think back to when brick and mortar stores were the only alternative. Faced with a choice between going to several different bookstores, each of which shelved the works of only one author, or going to Barnes and Noble or Borders where all those authors are represented, how many people would pick the first alternative?

I'm not sure searching for convenience makes someone lazy. (Though if they're emailing authors to find out where to buy their books, that is a good example that supports the lazy argument.)

[guest642]

Most readers are lazy, and in today's entitled society, they can't be bothered to do any of the work for themselves.

There is certainly truth in this, but I wonder how much different it really is from the past. Let's think back to when brick and mortar stores were the only alternative. Faced with a choice between going to several different bookstores, each of which shelved the works of only one author, or going to Barnes and Noble or Borders where all those authors are represented, how many people would pick the first alternative?

I'm not sure searching for convenience makes someone lazy. (Though if they're emailing authors to find out where to buy their books, that is a good example that supports the lazy argument.)

At least 5 emails/Facebook message a month asking this same question, Bill, something they could have gotten themselves with 1 minute (or less) of Googling. AT LEAST 5 emails/Facebook message a month...

[Max]

Sounds like a hassle to me. For both, me and the reader.

[Simon Haynes]

Look into Payhip - they handle taxes for me, and you'll get more money back than you will selling through any bookstore.

Not that I've sold a single copy, yet, but the option is there.

[Leo]

What Simon said, I use Payhip for ebooks, audiobooks, lessons and podcastes. I link to my website and it's in my emails. I only give Payhip 5%, that has to be a winner when selling audiobooks through Audible is horrendous. They like to cut your audiobook price leaving your payment in the 'miniscule' category. I need Amazon / Audible but if I can sell some on my own site full price I'm a happy chappie.

[Vidya]

Thanks, everyone. Re the tax implications, this was discussed on kb and I remember some people saying the authorities in Europe can’t actually do anything if you dont add the correct VAT for their nation and remit it to the tax office in that country.

I live in India. I’m asking seriously: what are the authorities in Europe going to do if I don’t pay them the VAT?

How will they even know about it unless I become a big name?

And ok, let’s say I do become a big seller. Again, what legal action can they take to make me pay the tax? Because from what I remember of the KB discussion, some said they can do nothing and we should just ignore all requirements for VAT and continue on our merry way.

If this was the wrong info, please tell me. I don't want to get into any legal hassles.

[The Bass Bagwhan]

Big name authors don't sell direct from their websites because they don't have to ... and can't anyway. They have agents and publishers and goodness knows what to deal with all that stuff. All they have to do is write.
Amazon doesn't need give new or even experienced smaller authors visibility. It buries them among a flood of daily releases before consigning them to low-ranking oblivion.
Visibility is the biggest challenge we all face, and if you can beat that challenge then it really doesn't matter where your readers go to find your books except that your own website can offer enormous advantages when it come to controlling content.
Unless Amazing takes some drastic steps to control its catalogue, visibility there will non-existent for all but the biggest players.
Website sales are the future.

[Vidya]

Well said, Bass. After all the shenanigans Zon has pulled, who could trust them? First they let the scammers rule for two years despite repeated reports against them. Now they’ve reduced visibility and made it dependent on our buying expensive ads. Well, foo to that.

Big name authors don't sell direct from their websites because they get such huge advances and are treated so well by agents and publishers that they’re willing to give up a good percentage of their profits to ensure someone else does most of the dirty work of marketing for them while they focus on writing.

[KateG]

I've just started selling through my website, using Gumroad. I'm training my readers to buy there by offering exclusive content, and although I don't expect it to happen overnight, I do expect it to be worthwhile in the long run. I'm lucky too, that I write in a genre (f/f ) where the readers are very loyal and will often ask where they should buy your book so that you get the greatest return.

[Vidya]

Thanks, Kate. Do you feel Gumroad has advantages over sites like Shopify and Payhip?

[NCB]

Answering purely as a voracious reader. I often buy books because I've read all the ones I have, to purchase books I browse, if something catches my eye I purchase it. If I like it I may go back and look for more by the author, I might come across stuff by people I've read and enjoyed before and buy that.

Unless you're one of my very favourite authors it's unlikely I'm going to remember to go to your website to buy your books.

I appreciate that's just me.

[KateG]

I spent quite a while looking at all the different options like Shopify and Payjip and others as they all have slightly different advantages. It ended up being a question of which does the most of what I want for the least charge?

Shopify seemed a little more complicated, and charged more. Payhip is great, but they charge more than Gumroad (by a smidgen) but even though you can couple them with Bookfunnel, I was also wanting an option that would let me sell physical items, and Payhip is digital only.

I actually love Gumroad. It's super easy to set up, it provides for physical as well as all sorts of digital content - audio, etc. I have readers lining up already to buy postcards and related items as well as exclusive stories. Gumroad does recurring subscriptions, in case I want to set up my own Patreon style offerings (which I will, eventually). I was concerned about the delivery options and side-loading issues, but it turns out that not only do Bookfunnel have plans to eventually hook up with Gumroad as they do with Payhip, but Gumroad has its own app and easy send-to-kindle options, so I haven't had an issue yet, as long as customers actually read their receipts and download emails.

I realise most readers won't give up the convenience of one click shopping on Amazon or wherever, but I am including the shop on my site as part of building the whole brand, and thinking long-term. Some of my work is launched into KU, and those will eventually be offered first on my site for a limited time. I like the flexibility of it all.

Hope that helps!

[veinglory]

Count me as one of those people who will not buy off a person's  freestanding store.  I know that Amazon will either send me the thing in good order or refund me.  I know they have never stolen from my credit card.  Some random person's store could be a scam.  The internet is full of fake ebook sellers trying to get credit card numbers.  Also, I am just lazy and like going where all my deets are pre-loaded.

[Vidya]

Thanks, Kate. Does Gumroad see to paying VAT and taxes as Payhip does?

[KateG]

Thanks, Kate. Does Gumroad see to paying VAT and taxes as Payhip does?

No, it doesn't. It does however, allow you to keep track of which country purchasers are from.

[David VanDyke]

One idea: If you're wide, you can split the difference a little, in a way, by using the Smashwords store to sell ebooks. You get ~80% royalty instead of ~70%. You can make a bookstore page on your website that sends them to Smashwords fulfillment when they click.

We're planning to create special box sets (for example, 3 books for 9.99) that are not available anywhere else, so when people write us (fairly often) looking for a way of getting a bulk discount on a series, we direct them to these special box sets. They get a trusted provider, we get 80%, Smashwords takes care of the sales taxes, everybody's happy.

Note that these will not be distributed--they're just for the Smashwords store itself.

[Vidya]

Some people have said they won’t buy off a person's store. But isn’t Payhip pretty well known by now? won’t people trust it enough to make payments through it?

I appreciate it won't be easy to drive people from Zon to your site but I remember one author who had what I thought was a good idea as to how to do it. S/he said he put the book up first on his own store for a week or a month or so and told readers if they wanted an early copy they would have to buy from there and then it would be released on Zon.

There are probably other incentives we can give, eg discount it somewhat on one’s own store and then post it on Zon only after we raise the price on our store. What other incentives can we give?

[David VanDyke]

I do know one author who had bad interactions with Amazon in 2014 and all but abandoned KDP for ebooks. Hard to believe, but they claim to be doing fine now (after a period of rebuilding) with a combination of the other vendors and their own e-commerce store. They left the paperbacks up on Amazon just to have a presence and used the author page to provide links to their online pages (website, social media, etc), from which readers could find the ebooks. Not the most efficient, but the fact they could make that work at all shows Amazon isn't strictly necessary to make a living as an indie author of ebooks.