Author Topic: Moderation Statement  (Read 1312 times)

TimothyEllis

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Moderation Statement
« on: September 16, 2018, 03:12:21 PM »
The best moderation happens without anyone being aware of it. Or at least, in a way which has minimum impact.

THERE WILL BE NO THREAD EDITING HERE!
At most, a moderator may add a comment to a post, but the post itself will not be changed. Moderators may edit a thread heading if necessary to avoid misunderstandings, to clarify what is in the thread, or add context. Moderators may attempt to fix quote issues, without changing the actual post.


THERE WILL BE NO MODERATION BASED ON PERCEIVED TONE OR EMOTIONAL RESPONSES.
Moderators will be chosen for their ability to remain objective and detached from whatever issue is before them. We recognize people do get emotional, express things badly or not diplomatically, and sometimes misunderstandings happen. The object will be to clarify first, if necessary.
 

The following things will be DELETED on sight:
Hate, Abuse of any kind (directed at anyone), Spam, Commercial links, Obscene material, and Harassment. Anything deemed actual slander or defamation, although this will be case by case, and only as necessary to protect the forum from legal action.
Deleted posts will be kept in a hidden area, in case needed at anytime in the future.

Threads which deteriorate into arguments will be moved to an Off Topic area, or will be split and the argumentative part moved to Off Topic.

Argumentative threads going nowhere will be locked. Before or after being moved at the discretion of a moderator.

Threads may be temporarily locked while moderator action is performed.

Thread highjacks will be split off and moved where appropriate.

Individual posts which are considered inappropriate, or generate valid complaints, but not deemed bad enough for deletion, will be split off and become a zombie. Multiple zombies for a specific thread may or may not be reformed as a zombie thread. We really dont want to delete, so please dont force it.

Moderators may move a thread to another area at their discretion. You may request it be moved back at your discretion.

Banning a user is considered a last resort option. Such a ban might be for a specific forum area, or from the forum as a whole. It is preferred you dont push this button.

Moderators are not obligated to inform a user about moderation of a post. We will attempt to as much as possible, but probably wont if it was just a move, or split and move was involved. If something vanishes from somewhere, it got moved somewhere else, and you can check where the post went by looking at your posts list in your profile. Moderators may or may not mention in a thread that it had posts split off, depending on circumstances.

If you have a problem with a moderator, contact me by PM. If the moderator in question is me, I'll attempt to talk the issue out with you and try and reach a compromise. Remember, I cant fix it if you dont talk to me about it.

Moderation should not be discussed in the forum. Please PM me or a moderator before posting in public. Any public complaint thread may be moved to a more appropriate place, and once resolved, removed from view.


Moderation policy will be reviewed regularly. If you wish to comment, please PM me.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 11:04:45 PM by TimothyEllis »
 
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guest14

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 04:27:01 AM »

Moderation should not be discussed in the forum. Please PM me or a moderator before posting in public. Any public complaint thread may be moved to a more appropriate place, and once resolved, removed from view.


I agree with all of the above, except I would like to see 'moderation in action' Transparency is good if you can manage it because it indicates no underhandedness (not that I'm implying there would be).  I've experienced first-hand the objectionable side of moderation. I suggest an area of the forum that is set aside for disputes where it can be public, but away from the main discussion areas. Perhaps the offender is restricted to that area while the issue is resolved and then released back as and when. Putting people in solitary confinement for an unlimited term is totally counter-productive if they are a genuine member.
 

Vidya

Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 01:17:46 PM »
“The following things will be DELETED on sight:
Hate, Abuse of any kind (directed at anyone),”

As a person of color, I would like to address this. On zoe there was a guy who told me all mosques in India should be demolished and replaced with temples, and all Muslims in India should have their “smelly asses” chased out of India. His words, not mine. Not only would I never say such a thing, I don't use language like that.

When confronted, he claimed his words had been twisted and taken out of context.

I do not want hate speech, racial abuse, abuse of any kind deleted. That makes it easy for the perpetrator to claim he was misunderstood. I would far prefer you let the speech stand. I believe a moderator should quote the speech in his post to ensure that no editing can take place, and then make it clear that speech like that will not be accepted.

The mod should then also add the subject is now closed and all further comments on the hate speech will be deleted. This is to ensure the thread doesn't get derailed. Plus, we aren’t going for a witch hunt here. Once a person has said something offensive, a mod should make it clear the board does not accept speech like that, but then we move on. No point endlessly beating up the offender.

I’ve never been in favor of deleting hate speech. That lets bigots get away with saying anything, safe in the knowledge that after they’ve got in their shots, their words will not come back to haunt them. It actually lessens accountability.

There was another guy who called me Shiva the Destroyer when I was trying to defend a friend who was being attacked. He was trying to use religion to attack me and just assumed I was a Hindu. Had I been a Hindu, it would have been highly offensive.

Again, if you say something like that to me, own it. Bigots should own what they say. I have no wish for any hate speech against me to be deleted.
 
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ScribblyFirefly

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2018, 10:52:52 PM »
I agree with Vidya. Leaving the person's hate speech in place rather than deleting it, or the moderator quoting it so the poster cannot delete is helpful (before locking the thread) because it forces the person to remain accountable for their words. I quick search of a member's username will help us get to know each other more quickly.
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 12:15:51 AM »
I'm not the sort of person to leave something up which would upset people.

But it depends on the thread. If its an otherwise good thread, the bad would be split off. Thread remains, split part goes into one of the off topic areas, depending on how bad. The posts remain, but are harder to find. If the thread looks like a nuke about to go off, it gets locked.

Anyway, here's hoping we never have to deal with them.

Vidya

Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2018, 01:36:55 AM »
No one said we coudnt edit our own posts. The idea was specifically not to delete hate speech, since these posters tend to claim we simply took what they said out of context.
 

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2018, 02:00:03 AM »
I think we're often guilty of making too much of something when we're at a low or against a wall somewhere in our lives. People should have the ability to retract anything unless the damage has already been done (I'm not talking about hurt feelings or sensitive egos) and there are legal repercussions in everything we say - even on a forum. If we're talking slander or defamation, then it should be preserved although it shouldn't be left there to wind people up and create hate and trolling. Put it somewhere where legal people can view it, otherwise, we should be looking at harmony and generosity of spirit - and no, I'm not being preachy here, I just want a place to go to where I can speak freely, argue, debate and sound-off without people being offended at a word. It's a forum (look up the meaning) and we should be relaxed and tolerant. PEACE!
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2018, 02:08:43 AM »
Put it somewhere where legal people can view it, otherwise, we should be looking at harmony and generosity of spirit - and no, I'm not being preachy here, I just want a place to go to where I can speak freely, argue, debate and sound-off without people being offended at a word. It's a forum (look up the meaning) and we should be relaxed and tolerant. PEACE!

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HSh

Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2018, 11:10:02 AM »
What's the policy on swearing?  I'm asking because I tend to have a high tolerance for foul language (as long as it's not racist or sexist).  But I don't want to start swearing if we're not supposed to and scare away the milder people.  Is there a language filter, or should we filter ourselves or does anything go?  I suppose a lot of the KB peeps won't feel comfortable if I say (bleep) every other sentence...

BTW what you define as "hurt feelings and sensitive egos" could be something another person considers offensive enough to leave the board, Tobias.  I hope we don't see this play out negatively but it can happen.  It seems to me that relaxed debates are easy when the outcomes don't affect you.  It's all fun mental gymnastics if it's all theory...but sometimes it isn't. 
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2018, 12:03:09 PM »
What's the policy on swearing?  I'm asking because I tend to have a high tolerance for foul language (as long as it's not racist or sexist).  But I don't want to start swearing if we're not supposed to and scare away the milder people.  Is there a language filter, or should we filter ourselves or does anything go?  I suppose a lot of the KB peeps won't feel comfortable if I say (bleep) every other sentence...


There are 3 words in the swear filter now. 2 of them add an *. The other gets XXXX. I dont mind basic swearing myself, but if there are complaints, I can add more or change the existing ones.

One of the things which amused me on KB was sh*t being changed to crap. Crap for me is the worse of the 2 words. :)


Quote
BTW what you define as "hurt feelings and sensitive egos" could be something another person considers offensive enough to leave the board, Tobias.  I hope we don't see this play out negatively but it can happen.  It seems to me that relaxed debates are easy when the outcomes don't affect you.  It's all fun mental gymnastics if it's all theory...but sometimes it isn't.


I would hope anyone who is offended will talk to me about it before either leaving or doing something drastic. The board is going to take time to evolve into what everyone likes.



Shane Jeffery

Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2018, 09:46:18 PM »
I'm really happy with your moderation statement, Timothy. I agree with everything and it gives me even more confidence about this forum  :Tup3a:
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2018, 12:08:05 AM »
Made an addition, reserving the right to edit thread subject headers.

In some cases at the moment, I'm adding thing inside [ ] at the beginning of a heading, to inform the reader whats inside.

There are also times when a herder is wrong or out of date, and if I see it, I'll update it. OP's can do it themselves, but so seldom do.

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2018, 12:44:42 AM »
Made an addition, reserving the right to edit thread subject headers.

In some cases at the moment, I'm adding thing inside [ ] at the beginning of a heading, to inform the reader whats inside.

There are also times when a herder is wrong or out of date, and if I see it, I'll update it. OP's can do it themselves, but so seldom do.
Saw the mod on one of mine, and it makes sense.
I do feel that if things get really busy, you (and any mods) will be hard pressed to keep up. Don't ignore your daily wordcount!
(I speak from experience, after I once tried to get a mailing list to adhere to a basic set of subject line rules. In the end I had to abandon the idea.)

 

LD

Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2018, 04:58:04 PM »
I'm an administrator of another forum. We rarely edit posts, but sometimes we do, if it gives out personal information.  We take out just that part and leave a note.
 

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2018, 05:03:19 PM »
Made an addition, reserving the right to edit thread subject headers.


My pet hate is misspelt headers. Makes me wonder how hurried the poster was. I know I'm a nitpicking fanny :)
 

dgcasey

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2018, 05:12:55 PM »
What's the policy on swearing?  I'm asking because I tend to have a high tolerance for foul language (as long as it's not racist or sexist). 

I don't see the reason for it. We're all supposed to be writers here. Meaning we're supposed to be able to use words to communicate and I would hope that most of us can do that without swearing in a public forum. You want to do it in your books? Fine. But one thing that has always been stressed about KBoards and what I think needs to follow us here is that this is a board where even young writers would be welcome. We shouldn't need swearing to get our points across.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 10:32:34 AM by dgcasey »
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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2018, 05:23:33 PM »
What's the policy on swearing?  I'm asking because I tend to have a high tolerance for foul language (as long as it's not racist or sexist). 

I don't see the reason for it. We're all supposed to be writers here. Meaning we're supposed to be able to use words to communicate and I would hope that most of us can do that without swearing in a public forum. You want to do it in your books? Fine. But one thing that has always been stressed about KBoards and what I think needs to follow us here is that this is a board where even young writers would be welcome. We shouldn't need swearing to get out points across.

I think we're writers and that means we use all the tools at our disposal to make our prose expressive and effective. The impact of a single word can convey everything the writer feels whether it is they themselves or a character. Nothing should be discounted in my opinion, but should always be in context and moderately applied. One should also realise the difference in severity of a word, or phrase is often culture-based and therefore should be allowed and applied if only to widen people's awareness that their view on the world isn't singular.
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2018, 05:42:57 PM »
As I write first person a lot, I frequently write in my own reactions as I write. If I say it, so does the character.

And I just had an idea. (Now I need a muahahaha smilie)

dgcasey

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2018, 03:43:15 PM »
I think we're writers and that means we use all the tools at our disposal to make our prose expressive and effective. The impact of a single word can convey everything the writer feels whether it is they themselves or a character. Nothing should be discounted in my opinion, but should always be in context and moderately applied. One should also realise the difference in severity of a word, or phrase is often culture-based and therefore should be allowed and applied if only to widen people's awareness that their view on the world isn't singular.

All I was getting at was, this is supposed to be a family level forum, unless the operators are planning to make it adult only. My thinking is that if my daughter had joined this forum a few years ago, when she was 15 or 16 and wanting to be a writer, I would have had to steer her away from here if the atmosphere is going to be comparable to a Navy bar.
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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2018, 03:56:21 PM »
I think we're writers and that means we use all the tools at our disposal to make our prose expressive and effective. The impact of a single word can convey everything the writer feels whether it is they themselves or a character. Nothing should be discounted in my opinion, but should always be in context and moderately applied. One should also realise the difference in severity of a word, or phrase is often culture-based and therefore should be allowed and applied if only to widen people's awareness that their view on the world isn't singular.

All I was getting at was, this is supposed to be a family level forum unless the operators are planning to make it adult only. My thinking is that if my daughter had joined this forum a few years ago when she was 15 or 16 and wanting to be a writer, I would have had to steer her away from here if the atmosphere is going to be comparable to a Navy bar.


Yes, I partly agree with you, but in my experience parents have no idea about the language used by their kids amongst their peers or in social environments. They might be put off in an adult forum, but I'm not aware that forums ever have to take account of children in a professional or social environment purely because it's extremely rare for them wanting to be in one. I would think the moderate route where Tim is taking it by excluding the harshest words out of the system is the best route and serves everyone. My kids knew what WTF meant long before I did so you may not even know that they're swearing at all.
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2018, 04:20:27 PM »
comparable to a Navy bar.

The navy bar is behind the Prison walls.  grint

If anyone has word issues in this regard, I can add more to the replacement list. I can also change the ones there now.

Edit: No that wasn't a dig at navy people. Just that all raucous threads will probably end up there.


David VanDyke

Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2018, 03:20:57 AM »
I think the mod line should be drawn between attacking the argument, and attacking the person. Loosely, if necessary, but to me, that's the acid test.

Someone can attack an argument or practice or behavior quite vigorously and passionately, but as soon as they shift to going after the person themselves, to me, that's where it becomes "abuse."

Example: That's the stupidest thing anyone's every said to me! (acceptable, for attacking the argument, even if not very precise)

You're the stupidest person I ever met! (Unacceptable, ad hominem)
Never listen to people with no skin in the game.
 
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2018, 11:47:30 AM »
I think the mod line should be drawn between attacking the argument, and attacking the person. Loosely, if necessary, but to me, that's the acid test.

Someone can attack an argument or practice or behavior quite vigorously and passionately, but as soon as they shift to going after the person themselves, to me, that's where it becomes "abuse."

Example: That's the stupidest thing anyone's every said to me! (acceptable, for attacking the argument, even if not very precise)

You're the stupidest person I ever met! (Unacceptable, ad hominem)

I agree. The latter will be split out and become a zombie.

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2018, 11:59:22 AM »
I think the mod line should be drawn between attacking the argument, and attacking the person. Loosely, if necessary, but to me, that's the acid test.

Someone can attack an argument or practice or behavior quite vigorously and passionately, but as soon as they shift to going after the person themselves, to me, that's where it becomes "abuse."

Example: That's the stupidest thing anyone's every said to me! (acceptable, for attacking the argument, even if not very precise)

You're the stupidest person I ever met! (Unacceptable, ad hominem)

I agree. The latter will be split out and become a zombie.


My brain's still frazzled from all the excitement, so I'm probably missing something simple and obvious... but what's the "zombie" thing mean?
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2018, 12:10:14 PM »
My brain's still frazzled from all the excitement, so I'm probably missing something simple and obvious... but what's the "zombie" thing mean?

There is an opt-in area called Here be Zombies. Anything moderated from inside threads, will be cut out, and sent to this area. So anything there is a zombie.

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2018, 12:22:44 PM »
My brain's still frazzled from all the excitement, so I'm probably missing something simple and obvious... but what's the "zombie" thing mean?

There is an opt-in area called Here be Zombies. Anything moderated from inside threads, will be cut out, and sent to this area. So anything there is a zombie.


Okay, thanks.  :)
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Solitary Dan

Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2018, 11:58:05 AM »
Moderators may move a thread to another area at their discretion. You may request it be moved back at your discretion.

Since there are private and public areas here, can it be added to the moderation policy that moderators will NOT move a thread from a private area to a public area?  Some of us start or post in threads in a private area for a reason and I think I would rather see a private thread locked or deleted rather than moved into a public area.
     
 
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2018, 12:52:59 PM »
Moderators may move a thread to another area at their discretion. You may request it be moved back at your discretion.

Since there are private and public areas here, can it be added to the moderation policy that moderators will NOT move a thread from a private area to a public area?  Some of us start or post in threads in a private area for a reason and I think I would rather see a private thread locked or deleted rather than moved into a public area.

It shouldn't happen. If it does, report it. But it shouldn't. Most likely is if it needs moving, it will be moved further off the grid, like into opt-in space.

But as I said, if it happens, report it. Or PM whichever mod is showing as on at the time.

Leo

Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2018, 07:50:23 AM »
I think that the best course of action when uncertain about a member's post is to report it. Add your comments and describe what it is you are concerned about.

Mods can't act if they don't see the post in question - speedy action may stop a thread going pear-shaped.

You can also reach out and PM Tim if you have a query.

Just saying...
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Moderation Statement
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2018, 02:39:49 AM »
Also remember the mods (and I) are on a learning curve.

A thread was moved for a short time into moderator land, so it vanished from view. Several posts were deleted from it,and the thread returned.

The deletion was an error, part of said mod learning curve. The object in future is to split out anything needed modding, and cast it into zombie land.

Its only happened once in 7000 posts, so we're doing really well. The object is no moderation at all, but when it is necessary, we aim to do so in a subtle way. Still learning how to do that though.

If a thread vanished, there are 2 reasons why. 1. It was moved somewhere where you cant see it. 2. It was deleted by the person who started it. (And this has happened a few times.)

If it was moved, either it went into an area you haven't requested access for, or it went into moderator land to await me seeing it. In the first, join the group. In the second, it will reappear somewhere at some point, unless it was truly evil in which case we have a spot to bury it in.

 
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