Author Topic: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills  (Read 1954 times)

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2019, 06:08:34 PM »
Oh geez. Is watching season 8 worth the angst? I'm one episode away from starting.... :icon_eek:



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Jeff Tanyard

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2019, 06:27:14 PM »
My reaction to 8x05:  :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :HB :HB :HB :icon_think: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: 

Now I'm only hoping for
Spoiler: ShowHide
 Arya to escape this show on her unicorn. Oh, and if she could take the upgraded dragon with her, that would be great.





Spoiler: ShowHide
Equus ex machina.  ;)
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Captain Cranky

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2019, 07:37:11 PM »
*Sigh* Suppose I better get started then...
Just keep your head down and keep on swinging.
 
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Denise

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2019, 09:05:33 AM »
I'm happy with the last episode.

- It got so bad it was funny.
- I no longer need to explain why I think the series has terrible writing.
- D&D were supposed to work on a Star Wars trilogy. Maybe TPTB will see reason after this conclusion. Please don't let them ruin the Old Republic.

- I think GRRM has been having writers block. I think it's so much pressure, etc. With this conclusion, he'll hopefully realize that whatever he writes is going to be better than the series.
 

PJ Post

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2019, 10:21:38 AM »
I thought the writing, while still pretty flawed, was turning a corner from last season, alas...

They seem preoccupied with creating Cinematic Moments, rather than a cohesive story with logical character motivations.

Spoiler: ShowHide
Why - when everything she had ever fought for was hers, at long last - did she go on a genocidal tirade that served no purpose other than to set up the conflict between her and Jon, because now she's bad and he's good. The Breaker of Chains suddenly hates the oppressed? While not nearly as bad, it's a lot like Luke in TLJ. The seeds for her crazy were there, but it was so rushed that the whole thing ended up being totally unearned - just as Arya's abandoning her quest for revenge was; why? Because the Hound told her to go home and be a good girl, otherwise she might end up like him? For f*ck’s sake, she already IS him!

 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2019, 06:24:47 PM »
For you AC/DC fans:





 :icon_mrgreen:   :band:   :icon_mrgreen:
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guest1291

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Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2019, 06:10:36 AM »
I would encourage anyone to go back and watch Season 3 Episode 10 entitled: "Mhysa" and compare that version of Dany with the character we've seen of late. You'll see just how far the writing has fallen and how out of character she was in Season 8 Episode 5.

There is no way after hearing those bells that the character being held aloft by citizens in S3E10 would have gone ahead after a full surrender by her enemies and burned an entire city killing thousands if not millions of innocents including children. Not the same show. Not the same characters. I don't who that was riding Drogon, but that wasn't Mhysa.

At this point I'm hoping she walks out next episode in front of all the survivors and removes her face to reveal she'd been replaced by the God of Death this entire time saying something like "only death can pay for life" and we find out Jaqen H'ghar killed the real Dany a long time ago.

Yep, that would still be crap writing, but it would still make more sense than what we're seeing.
 
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Denise

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2019, 11:09:09 AM »


At this point I'm hoping she walks out next episode in front of all the survivors and removes her face to reveal she'd been replaced by the God of Death this entire time saying something like "only death can pay for life" and we find out Jaqen H'ghar killed the real Dany a long time ago.



That's a great suggestion. It's certainly better than whatever they're going to write.

Does anyone have any suggestion for other issues:

- Do Dothraki and Unsullied respawn? (And they seem to respawn in greater numbers. Quite interesting)
- Are Dothraki and Unsullied fireproof?
- How did the Northern men act just as crazy as Dany and kept attacking with unnecessary violence and attacking civilians?


- When did Euron and Cersei downgrade their scorpions? From being a big threat making Dany's dragon ineffective, they became a joke.

- How did Jaime forget that his defining act was a character was to kill a king to protect innocents in the city, thus tainting his honor for life, and said he didn't care about the innocents? How did his hand grow back? 

- Did Cersei forget she'd sent Bronn to kill Jaime? Or was she upset he was hurt instead of dead?

- Where did Vary's intelligence go? Tyrion's?

They wasted a great opportunity for some moral ambiguity by having Dany do something completely stupid, unnecessary, and unquestionably evil. She's worse than cartoon villains, because they usually do evil things to achieve a goal. Had Dany caused deaths in a way that she still felt was justified and she still believed she had the moral high ground, it would have been a lot more consistent with the character and a lot more interesting. But no, let's make sure she's completely evil, without any question, so she can be killed (probably by Jon), because GOT is about plain good and plain evil, right?
 
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Joe Vasicek

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2019, 11:34:32 AM »
It seems that the big takeaway from how Game of Thrones has turned out is that if, by some fantastic stroke of luck, your books get picked up for a TV series, finish the damned series before the TV show overtakes you!
 
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Jeff Tanyard

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2019, 01:46:09 PM »
It seems that the big takeaway from how Game of Thrones has turned out is that if, by some fantastic stroke of luck, your books get picked up for a TV series, finish the damned series before the TV show overtakes you!


Unless it was all a diabolical plot on George's part.  Perhaps he decided to use the show as a test run to garner audience feedback.  Then he'll write the remaining books the way everyone wanted the story to play out.  He'll be the hero of the hour in the readers' eyes.

Just a theory.  ;)


How did his hand grow back? 


In case anyone is confused by this comment, here's what Denise is referring to:





 :doh: :hehe

Just add it to the long list of derp for this season.  On the plus side, now that Jaime has his hand back, maybe he's able to make mocha lattes and can find gainful employment in Dany's Winterfell franchise of Starbuck's.





On an unrelated note, this is funny:





 :roll: :roll: :roll:

If I ever go to war, I want Captain Cthulhu and his anti-aircraft gun on my side.   :icon_mrgreen:
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Simon Haynes

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2019, 01:54:36 PM »
I was just waiting for the bowmaster to bring down a star wars Walker. Guess I can live with two death stars instead ;-)


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Captain Cranky

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2019, 02:13:38 PM »

On an unrelated note, this is funny:





 :roll: :roll: :roll:

If I ever go to war, I want Captain Cthulhu and his anti-aircraft gun on my side.   :icon_mrgreen:

 :icon_rofl: The Loki one was particularly well-timed! That was awesome  :littleclap
Just keep your head down and keep on swinging.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #62 on: May 15, 2019, 10:28:01 PM »
I would bet a large pile of cash that Arya will wear a Jon mask and take out Dany in the last ep. Then again, Arya doesn't look much taller than Tyrion, so perhaps she'll use his face instead.

They have to use her skill somewhere this season.


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Denise

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2019, 02:36:09 AM »
Well, like I wrote, the good thing is that it's so bad it's funny. The memes are killing me.













 
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Captain Cranky

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2019, 11:00:12 AM »
So a couple of days ago I finally made it to s8e5, and I don't know what to say..I just...eh.

Thought I'd share a video instead to lighten the mood  :icon_rolleyes:



Just keep your head down and keep on swinging.
 
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antares

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2019, 04:26:42 PM »
Season 8 of Game of Thrones makes me glad I have Stargate SG-1 on DVD.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2019, 04:50:35 PM »
Season 8 of Game of Thrones makes me glad I have Stargate SG-1 on DVD.

Funny you should mention that. I started re-watching SG-1 from the first ep just this week. (It's all on Stan.)

"What do we have, and what do we need?"
"We have a Stargate. We need a dial home device."

Love it.


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SalesScanner, free KDP/Google Play/Kobo/Smashwords report analyser & aggregator.
 
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antares

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2019, 08:45:56 PM »
Simon Haynes, Let's stay in touch and compare notes. IMO Stargate SG-1 has a lot to teach about the dos and don'ts of writing.
Season 8 of Game of Thrones makes me glad I have Stargate SG-1 on DVD.

Funny you should mention that. I started re-watching SG-1 from the first ep just this week. (It's all on Stan.)

"What do we have, and what do we need?"
"We have a Stargate. We need a dial home device."

Love it.
 
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Simon Haynes

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2019, 09:59:27 PM »
Sure has. Just compare it to Stargate Universe, which was dire. (The idea was cool, but it was way too grim, dark and bleak.)

Year before last I re-watched all of SG1 followed by SGA and all the movie-length specials. Then I started on Universe and gave up during the first ep. I've seen the whole series of SGU before, but ... nah.


Also yWriter, free novel-writing software for Windows PCs. (Mac version in progress).
SalesScanner, free KDP/Google Play/Kobo/Smashwords report analyser & aggregator.
 
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JRTomlin

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #69 on: May 19, 2019, 09:17:48 AM »


At this point I'm hoping she walks out next episode in front of all the survivors and removes her face to reveal she'd been replaced by the God of Death this entire time saying something like "only death can pay for life" and we find out Jaqen H'ghar killed the real Dany a long time ago.



That's a great suggestion. It's certainly better than whatever they're going to write.

Does anyone have any suggestion for other issues:

- Do Dothraki and Unsullied respawn? (And they seem to respawn in greater numbers. Quite interesting)
- Are Dothraki and Unsullied fireproof?
- How did the Northern men act just as crazy as Dany and kept attacking with unnecessary violence and attacking civilians?


- When did Euron and Cersei downgrade their scorpions? From being a big threat making Dany's dragon ineffective, they became a joke.

- How did Jaime forget that his defining act was a character was to kill a king to protect innocents in the city, thus tainting his honor for life, and said he didn't care about the innocents? How did his hand grow back? 

- Did Cersei forget she'd sent Bronn to kill Jaime? Or was she upset he was hurt instead of dead?

- Where did Vary's intelligence go? Tyrion's?

They wasted a great opportunity for some moral ambiguity by having Dany do something completely stupid, unnecessary, and unquestionably evil. She's worse than cartoon villains, because they usually do evil things to achieve a goal. Had Dany caused deaths in a way that she still felt was justified and she still believed she had the moral high ground, it would have been a lot more consistent with the character and a lot more interesting. But no, let's make sure she's completely evil, without any question, so she can be killed (probably by Jon), because GOT is about plain good and plain evil, right?
You don't understand. Any woman with power MUST be evil. It is the rule.
 
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Joe Vasicek

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #70 on: May 19, 2019, 09:24:47 AM »
Any human with power MUST be evil. It is the rule.

FIFY
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2019, 09:34:25 AM »
It seems that the big takeaway from how Game of Thrones has turned out is that if, by some fantastic stroke of luck, your books get picked up for a TV series, finish the damned series before the TV show overtakes you!
That's definitely good advice!

It's probably also a good idea to try to retain some creative input. Maybe that's never done with TV series, but I know the movie examples where the author was involved (Harry Potter series, Jurassic Park, Ready Player One) worked out better than some of the ones in which the author wasn't involved. Though some changes have to be made to adapt to a different medium, the literary originals often mutate to a disturbing extent during the process.


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JRTomlin

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2019, 09:55:36 AM »
Any human with power MUST be evil. It is the rule.

FIFY
No, in fiction powerful males are allowed not to be evil. Women, never. Now in real life, I'd agree.

ETA: It is one of the oldest cliches in literature, and it says nothing good about the writing that they went for such a cheap and easy cliche.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 10:01:37 AM by JRTomlin »
 
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antares

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2019, 10:20:33 AM »
The damned showrunners -- D&D -- cannot even manage internal story consistency.

In 'The Long Night', Snow ducked behind a boulder to escape dead dragon fire. The stone withstood the fire.

In 'The Bells', dragon fire exploded the stone walls of the keep of King's Landing.

I am so done with this crap. If you want me, I will be watching my DVDs of Stargate SG-1.
 
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Joe Vasicek

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #74 on: May 19, 2019, 01:45:49 PM »
Any human with power MUST be evil. It is the rule.

FIFY
No, in fiction powerful males are allowed not to be evil. Women, never. Now in real life, I'd agree.

ETA: It is one of the oldest cliches in literature, and it says nothing good about the writing that they went for such a cheap and easy cliche.

Galadriel.
Eowyn.
Vin.
Dejah Thoris.
Princess Leah.
Jane from Xenocide.
Petra.
The childlike empress.
Princess buttercup.

Honk honk!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 01:56:25 PM by Joe Vasicek »
 

ingobernable

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2019, 02:32:26 PM »
My thoughts on 8x06:

Spoiler: ShowHide
 Bran played them all. That evil little sh*t with his smirk. :icon_rofl: He managed to get rid of both Jon and Dany very effectively and become king. Jon's face when Bran said "You were right where you were supposed to be." :icon_rofl: And the whole "Why do you think I came all this way?" :icon_rofl: Sansa realized she could just snatch the North for herself since Bran owed her for babbling out Jon's secret. Maybe it was all a plot between Bran, Sansa, and Tyrion.  :icon_rofl:

I fully believe Drogon took Dany somewhere and she's reborn/revived/something. Maybe she didn't even die. It was all too quick, and her body changed position at one point.  :icon_rofl: No wonder Bran wants to hunt down Drogon, but he won't succeed. Fly, my pretty dragon, fly! :hehe Jon was finally decent with Ghost.  :littleclap Maybe once everyone is away from Bran's influence, they can become themselves and decent again?  :icon_think: :hehe The ending looked like a setup for another season. I guess they want us to come up with what happens next because they know they'd ruin it. I read the leaks before watching, so I was just laughing about the whole thing. I guess the Dothraki and Unsullied can really respawn, so that's a good thing for them, and everyone can also blame Dany for everything, so I guess that means no consequences for anyone who might've also done bad things while attacking the city. King's Landing can teleport or just spins on some wheel, so sometimes they're in a desert and sometimes on the coast, and sometimes it even snows. It's hard to keep track of it.  :shrug

Anyway, this made me realize how glad I am that I'm a writer. No one can ruin my books except for me.  :icon_mrgreen: This used to be such a serious show, and now I can't stop laughing about it.
 
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Captain Cranky

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2019, 07:23:10 PM »
Okay, so I'm glad it's over. At least I hope it's over. The last thing I want to see is some spin-off or something to cash in.  :icon_eek:

Spoiler: ShowHide
Episode 5 was just so ridiculous and overdone I honestly didn't hold much hope for episode 6, but I feel surprisingly satisfied. That could just be relief that it's finally over though..

Dany was always going to lose her sh*t at some point, and though it could have been done better in the previous episode, she needed to die. By season 7 I was really starting to dislike her. I'm glad Jon was the one who killed her, he was starting to look pretty spineless there for a while, but I've always liked him, and I'm happy he survived. Sending him back to the wall was a good call, he belongs there.

Season 7 was a hard one for me to get through, I didn't particularly like Arya's character arc for that season. There was some ridiculous moments with her in season 8 too, but again, sending her to explore west of Westeros was a good call. It feels true to her. What I did like about season 7 was Sansa. She did a lot of growing, and through her experiences seemed to get a grasp on the qualities needed to be a Queen, and I think she will be a good one. Compassionate or cold when she needs to be, but fair. I would have liked to see her get into a smackdown with Dany, but alas...

Bran becoming king makes sense I suppose, his arc always felt like it didn't have much purpose to it, so I can see why the writers went that way. But it still felt...I'm not even sure. Convenient maybe? Like he was made king as an afterthought? I don't feel an awful lot about it, his character wasn't terribly interesting to me after the first few seasons, it didn't feel like it was going anywhere but was just another side story.  :shrug Honestly I think they could have left out the whole thing with Jon not being Ned's bastard son and being next in line for the iron throne too, it didn't seem to make any difference to the tension or story. It didn't go anywhere, he just bent the knee.  :evil2:

There was a lot to not like about seasons 7 and 8, which in places just got more and more idiotic, but I couldn't be bothered right now. There were some characters that just felt like they were there for the sake of it, rather than having any real purpose or depth. Cersei just became a caricature of herself towards the end, there was no real growth. Tyrion I think mostly stayed true to his character, no real complaints there for the most part. It would have been hard to rein that last episode in after the previous ones, so I'm pleasantly surprised. It could have been much much worse.

One big loose end here is Dany. Man I hope they're not planning on doing something with that. She needs to stay gone, they've already cheapened the series with some ridiculous storylines, scenes shot purely for showing how great their special effects are (seriously, the scene in the first few episodes where Jon and Dany take a ride on the dragons? I thought I was watching a kids movie or something), and not enough care taken to even notice a coffee cup left in the shot. All the special effects and editing and no-one saw it? All those effects and no-one could cgi it out? Bit sloppy..

Oh, and don't get me started on Brienne and Tormund. It was necessary to have everyone else in the series get naked but we stopped with them? And she went with Jaime instead? They're the only characters I actually wanted to get together. Everyone else I could have done without lol. Anyway I feel a major rant coming on, so I'll stop now.


eta: typos...oh so many typos...
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 07:45:12 PM by Captain Cranky »
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Guerin

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2019, 09:47:47 PM »
Okay, so I'm glad it's over. At least I hope it's over. The last thing I want to see is some spin-off or something to cash in.  :icon_eek:

Spoiler: ShowHide
Episode 5 was just so ridiculous and overdone I honestly didn't hold much hope for episode 6, but I feel surprisingly satisfied. That could just be relief that it's finally over though..

Dany was always going to lose her sh*t at some point, and though it could have been done better in the previous episode, she needed to die. By season 7 I was really starting to dislike her. I'm glad Jon was the one who killed her, he was starting to look pretty spineless there for a while, but I've always liked him, and I'm happy he survived. Sending him back to the wall was a good call, he belongs there.

Season 7 was a hard one for me to get through, I didn't particularly like Arya's character arc for that season. There was some ridiculous moments with her in season 8 too, but again, sending her to explore west of Westeros was a good call. It feels true to her. What I did like about season 7 was Sansa. She did a lot of growing, and through her experiences seemed to get a grasp on the qualities needed to be a Queen, and I think she will be a good one. Compassionate or cold when she needs to be, but fair. I would have liked to see her get into a smackdown with Dany, but alas...

Bran becoming king makes sense I suppose, his arc always felt like it didn't have much purpose to it, so I can see why the writers went that way. But it still felt...I'm not even sure. Convenient maybe? Like he was made king as an afterthought? I don't feel an awful lot about it, his character wasn't terribly interesting to me after the first few seasons, it didn't feel like it was going anywhere but was just another side story.  :shrug Honestly I think they could have left out the whole thing with Jon not being Ned's bastard son and being next in line for the iron throne too, it didn't seem to make any difference to the tension or story. It didn't go anywhere, he just bent the knee.  :evil2:

There was a lot to not like about seasons 7 and 8, which in places just got more and more idiotic, but I couldn't be bothered right now. There were some characters that just felt like they were there for the sake of it, rather than having any real purpose or depth. Cersei just became a caricature of herself towards the end, there was no real growth. Tyrion I think mostly stayed true to his character, no real complaints there for the most part. It would have been hard to rein that last episode in after the previous ones, so I'm pleasantly surprised. It could have been much much worse.

One big loose end here is Dany. Man I hope they're not planning on doing something with that. She needs to stay gone, they've already cheapened the series with some ridiculous storylines, scenes shot purely for showing how great their special effects are (seriously, the scene in the first few episodes where Jon and Dany take a ride on the dragons? I thought I was watching a kids movie or something), and not enough care taken to even notice a coffee cup left in the shot. All the special effects and editing and no-one saw it? All those effects and no-one could cgi it out? Bit sloppy..

Oh, and don't get me started on Brienne and Tormund. It was necessary to have everyone else in the series get naked but we stopped with them? And she went with Jaime instead? They're the only characters I actually wanted to get together. Everyone else I could have done without lol. Anyway I feel a major rant coming on, so I'll stop now.


eta: typos...oh so many typos...


Unfortunately, the last thing you want to see is happening. They are doing a prequel series  :help

I think the biggest problem was the show outpaced the books and they were left to write their own ending. Then, to make matters even worse, they decided they could do that in six episodes instead of the normal ten. Imagine writing a novel, you're on page 599, and your editor tells you that you have 50 pages to wrap it up? The only thing to do is write "And they all lived happily ever after. The END."

Guerin Zand | Website | Facebook
 

Jake

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2019, 06:12:28 AM »
Great show. The last few seasons significantly dropped in quality once they ran out of material from the books and it wasn't the ending I wanted, but over-all it was still a great experience and head and shoulders above 99% of everything else out there.
 
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Captain Cranky

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2019, 08:30:22 AM »
Unfortunately, the last thing you want to see is happening. They are doing a prequel series  :help

Ugh  :icon_sad:
Just keep your head down and keep on swinging.
 

PJ Post

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2019, 10:59:58 AM »
And this is why the writing matters. What a disappointing misguided clusterf*ck.   :HB

Pro writing tip (and I'm talking to you too Rian): Earn your drama.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #81 on: May 21, 2019, 12:29:51 PM »
Any human with power MUST be evil. It is the rule.

FIFY
No, in fiction powerful males are allowed not to be evil. Women, never. Now in real life, I'd agree.

ETA: It is one of the oldest cliches in literature, and it says nothing good about the writing that they went for such a cheap and easy cliche.

Galadriel.
Eowyn.
Vin.
Dejah Thoris.
Princess Leah.
Jane from Xenocide.
Petra.
The childlike empress.
Princess buttercup.

Honk honk!
I do apologise. Millennia of sexism and misogyny did not really happen. It was all in my imagination and thousands of years did not establish a literary trope of evil, powerful women like:

Medea (Greek legend)
The Harpies (Greek legend)
Lady Macbeth (Macbeth)
Mrs. Havisham (Great Expectations)
Cathy Ames (East of Eden)
Maleficent (Sleeping Beauty)
Bellatrix Lestrange (Harry Potter)
Miranda Priestly (Devil Wears Prada)
Ursula (The Little Mermaid)
Nurse Ratched (One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest)
Matilda Trunchbull (Matilda)
Wicked Witch of the West (The Wizard of Oz)
Lady Tremaine (Cinderella)
Mystique (X-Men)
Cruella De Vil (101 Dalmatians)
Jadis the White Witch (The Chronicles of Narnia)
Queen of Hearts (Alice in Wonderland)
The Evil Queen (Snow White)

And it was not at all cliched to turn Dany into an Evil Queen. Of course, it was not.  :clap:
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 12:42:49 PM by JRTomlin »
 

Joe Vasicek

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #82 on: May 21, 2019, 02:25:46 PM »
Your argument was not that misogyny in storytelling happens. Rather, your argument was that it never doesn't happen, or in your own words, that women in fiction are never "allowed not to be evil." That argument is silly on its face and easily disprovable.

Be precise with your words, please. I know we live in a clown world where everyone is addicted to sarcasm and outrage, but that doesn't make it right.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2019, 02:31:27 PM »
I will use a very precise word, one with which you seem to be unacquainted, regarding my original post. The word is: hyperbole. Look it up.

ETA: Misogyny in fiction not only happens, it has happened with such regularity that much of it is in fact cliche. That is exactly what the end of Dany's story arc was, a pathetic cliche.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 02:36:06 PM by JRTomlin »
 

Joe Vasicek

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2019, 04:09:20 PM »
I am very well acquainted with hyperbole, seeing as I grew up with three sisters who match the feminine stereotype as well as you do.

...okay, that was a joke I could not resist making, given the context. I'll stop now.
 

guest1291

  • Guest
Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2019, 05:04:20 AM »
And this is why the writing matters. What a disappointing misguided clusterf*ck.   :HB

Pro writing tip (and I'm talking to you too Rian): Earn your drama.

This. Exactly this. Well put. Earn your drama.

Also, I just want to point out... there's always this idea I see spread around that D&D "ran out" of book material to adapt for the TV show. This is not true. Most of A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons was left unadapted. That was a decision the showrunners made.

Truth be told, there's more than enough material in the 5 main ASOIAF books we have currently to fill the 10 seasons/10 episodes each that HBO had expressed interest in funding. The idea to condense/consolidate and dash off a rush-job rests entirely on D&D's shoulders.

I hope they do a better job with their Star Wars project, but after seeing how they've handled this show, and knowing that at least one of them worked on the writing for the crap-fest that was X-Men Origins: Wolverine, I'm not optimistic.
 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2019, 06:48:17 AM »
v  v  v  v  v    Short Stories    v  v  v  v  v    vv FREE! vv
     
Genres: Science Fiction, Fantasy (some day) | Author Website
 
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PJ Post

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #87 on: May 22, 2019, 08:36:44 AM »
An interesting blog post on Scientific American about the series:

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

The author seems to be overthinking it a bit.

The problem, the big problem that everyone is citing (apart from the TSTL thing), is that the whole season was impossibly rushed. Everything could have ended just as it did, but we needed some story to get the characters into place. Jamie leaves Brienne for Cersei...m'kay. But we need a narrative reason, not a one-liner that not only undoes Jamie's entire three-season character arc, but destroys his very core psychology. Season one...Jamie saves the people of King's Landing, regardless of the personal cost (King Slayer), from a Mad King. Fast forward to the finale and Jamie doesn't really care about the people, innocent or not. WTF? Do these guys even watch the show?

Yes, it is possible for Luke to go full Dark Side and murder his teenage nephew - BUT we need some serious motherf*cking story to get there. Sorry, a flashback served three ways doesn't cut it. Same with Game of Thrones.

The current season of Walking Dead is suffering from the same thing. Characters have completely different personalities now, unexplained motivations that make no sense except to set up scenes the new showrunner thinks might be cool or poignant. And no, you can't tell that story in reverse, not once we've come to know these characters so well.

And I don't mind politics or social commentary, in fact, I kind of like 'em - as long as they fit logically into the existing narrative and further either character or plot. I don't get it, there are a lot of really really good writers out there - I know, I've seen their work - why is this so hard?
 

Guerin

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #88 on: May 22, 2019, 09:37:06 PM »
And this is why the writing matters. What a disappointing misguided clusterf*ck.   :HB

Pro writing tip (and I'm talking to you too Rian): Earn your drama.

This. Exactly this. Well put. Earn your drama.

Also, I just want to point out... there's always this idea I see spread around that D&D "ran out" of book material to adapt for the TV show. This is not true. Most of A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons was left unadapted. That was a decision the showrunners made.

Truth be told, there's more than enough material in the 5 main ASOIAF books we have currently to fill the 10 seasons/10 episodes each that HBO had expressed interest in funding. The idea to condense/consolidate and dash off a rush-job rests entirely on D&D's shoulders.

I hope they do a better job with their Star Wars project, but after seeing how they've handled this show, and knowing that at least one of them worked on the writing for the crap-fest that was X-Men Origins: Wolverine, I'm not optimistic.

No one will argue that there wasn't enough material in the books to fill 10 seasons/10 episodes. They did skip over a lot. We can have an entirely different discussion about that. When we say they ran out of material from the books, we are talking about the fact that their decision, wherever it came from, to truncate this down to 8 seasons, and only 6 episodes in season 8, meant they had to skip to the ending before that/those book(s) were written. They had no material, other than perhaps a rough outline from the author, to use to write the ending.

The decision to cut the series short was the biggest problem, but another part of the problem is the author, R.R. Martin. He's been doing a lot of everything except writing lately. That's fine, except he is the one who decided how many books would be in this series. There are a lot of people now turned off to reading the books since the series is not complete, and may never be. The only ending they have to the series is the HBO ending. When HBO negotiated the series with him, they should have stipulated that he had to deliver the series ending within a timeframe that matched their production schedule or face a financial penalty. He had eight years for God's sake! Now that the HBO series is over, the interest in R.R. Martin's books will surely dwindle. Maybe he's made enough money and just doesn't care?

« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 09:42:07 PM by Guerin »

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antares

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2019, 12:22:14 AM »
No, it is not interesting. It is at best misinformed; at worst dangerous to fledgling writers. Why? Because it will give them the idea that 'sociological' stories exist.

Zeynep Tufekci -- that's the author of this glib screed -- is an academic and thinks like an academic. My guess is she is still defending her dissertation in every thing she writes. Seems that way. (BTW if you click on her name in the article, it jumps to a link that is titled 'Stories by Zeynep Tufekci'. They are not stories. Stories need characters and a plot -- unless you are Bruce Sterling and f*ck him. They are articles. Like this one.)

Why do all the editors of SF magazines say they want character-driven stories? Because their experience is that sogenannte character-driven stories get readers engaged and sell magazines.

People want to identify with characters. Why? I don't know, but I know it's true.

The scary thing about GoT is that no one ever knew if their favorite character would survive the episode. I was happy when Bailish got his throat cut, but I was upset when they offed Varys. I swore that I would give up the series if they killed Tyrion. Well, they never did,  but they drained the life out of him in season 8. He spent the whole season begging for mercy for others. Big damned fall from that 'f*ck you all' scene at his trial.

It's no use trying to write 'sociological' stories. They don't work, and they don't sell. No one wants to read 'em.

Write stories about people. Put 'em in difficult situations, in bad situations and let 'em fight their way out. Make the stakes high -- life or death -- 'cause nobody gives a flying f*ck that some yahoo lost his fortune in the bust of the real estate bubble. But don't have Arya Stark kill the f*cking Night King in one episode and then run away like a scared little girl two episodes later. It's out of character, it's stupid, and it's insulting. I want to take a softball bat to the hands of Benioff and Weiss.

Anyway, forget 'sociological' stories. No such animal. Write stories about people.

Let me put it to you this way: American Beauty or Guardians of the Galaxy. Which do you want to see again?

An interesting blog post on Scientific American about the series:

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/
 
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guest1291

  • Guest
Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #90 on: May 23, 2019, 07:06:45 AM »
And this is why the writing matters. What a disappointing misguided clusterf*ck.   :HB

Pro writing tip (and I'm talking to you too Rian): Earn your drama.

This. Exactly this. Well put. Earn your drama.

Also, I just want to point out... there's always this idea I see spread around that D&D "ran out" of book material to adapt for the TV show. This is not true. Most of A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons was left unadapted. That was a decision the showrunners made.

Truth be told, there's more than enough material in the 5 main ASOIAF books we have currently to fill the 10 seasons/10 episodes each that HBO had expressed interest in funding. The idea to condense/consolidate and dash off a rush-job rests entirely on D&D's shoulders.

I hope they do a better job with their Star Wars project, but after seeing how they've handled this show, and knowing that at least one of them worked on the writing for the crap-fest that was X-Men Origins: Wolverine, I'm not optimistic.

No one will argue that there wasn't enough material in the books to fill 10 seasons/10 episodes. They did skip over a lot. We can have an entirely different discussion about that. When we say they ran out of material from the books, we are talking about the fact that their decision, wherever it came from, to truncate this down to 8 seasons, and only 6 episodes in season 8, meant they had to skip to the ending before that/those book(s) were written. They had no material, other than perhaps a rough outline from the author, to use to write the ending.

They're writers. I don't think they get a pass for writing a poor ending simply because there was no book material to adapt from. Writers write.

Quote
The decision to cut the series short was the biggest problem, but another part of the problem is the author, R.R. Martin. He's been doing a lot of everything except writing lately. That's fine, except he is the one who decided how many books would be in this series.

The showrunners decided to jettison from the book material back when there was still plenty of book material to use. That's on them and that decision is what's led to the crappy ending. Again, even if all they had was an outline from GRRM right from the start, they're writers - it's what they're being paid big money to do. I don't place any of the blame for the show's terrible writing on GRRM. He gave them his notes, the highly paid professional writers should be more than able to take it from there. That there wasn't strict book material there for them to use or George himself there to hold their hands should not absolve their terrible writing.

Quote
There are a lot of people now turned off to reading the books since the series is not complete, and may never be. The only ending they have to the series is the HBO ending. When HBO negotiated the series with him, they should have stipulated that he had to deliver the series ending within a timeframe that matched their production schedule or face a financial penalty. He had eight years for God's sake! Now that the HBO series is over, the interest in R.R. Martin's books will surely dwindle. Maybe he's made enough money and just doesn't care?



Completely disagree. We have no idea what was in their deal. Maybe his notes and outlines were enough for them, or they at least agreed as such even if in practice they'd proved it wasn't enough from a storytelling perspective.

Anyway, I don't think interest in the books has been hurt at all. If anything I think the interest in the books is at an all-time high thanks to the devolution of the show and fan disappointment with D&D's writing. I imagine when Winds comes out the sales will be through the roof. And honestly, as a writer, I say let GRRM take as long as he wants with a world he's conceived and built. If he wants to take another decade or decides not to finish it at all, that's his prerogative. I get there'd be disappointment and many people are tired of waiting, but I side with GRRM on this. It's his baby.
 
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Joseph Malik

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #91 on: May 31, 2019, 11:40:06 PM »
My biggest problem with the way this wrapped up is that it had nothing to do with the rest of the series.

Hear me out.

Go back to the opening scene. The very first scene, in S1E1, with the White Walkers.

That scene exists--in the books and the show--to throw the rest of their bullsh*t into relief. We know something that the characters don't: none of their squabbling and jockeying matters. The existence of the White Walkers makes all of their struggles to "rule" Westeros secretly futile and therefore ironic. Unless I missed something, the entire subtext of the show is right there in the prologue. (Pretty sure I talked about this on either this forum or the other one when I was describing what a prologue is in fantasy and what it's supposed to do. Very few have ever done it this well.)

Once the writers removed the White Walkers, we were left with Survivor: King's Landing. Yawn. Idiotic.

However, they weren't wrong: hordes of mouth-breathing reality TV fans across America wanted to see "their favorite" on the throne, and D&D completely pandered to them. It was brilliant marketing, because the show did get off-track as its popularity soared, and it did, in a lot of ways, turn into more or less a reality show, with fans breaking off into factions. However, the moment the White Walkers were defeated, the series turned into the exact opposite of what the story was originally about.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 11:42:15 PM by Joseph Malik »
 
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