Author Topic: I'm Going Wide in 2021 (Read 27366 times)

The Masked Scrivener · « **on:** February 16, 2021, 08:54:36 PM »

I've decided to pull my books from KDP Select and head out into the great wide open. I enjoyed my time watching KU pages add up while I wrote my first series, but feel the opportunity to get my books out to a bigger audience is the best plan for me. I have a couple of months left on some of my books for select, so the re-launch of my series will be in April. I will share my success, or lack thereof, with the class as it happens.

My plan is to go direct with Amazon, Apple, Google, Kobo, and BN. I will be using Bookbub ads, FB ads, and maybe dabble in AMS. My newsletter is over 700, and growing.

My current series is a five book science fiction series. I will be launching my new science fiction series, which is planned for 8-10 books, with the first 4-5 to be published this year.

Wish me luck and good fortune.

R. C. · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2021, 11:57:20 PM »

Scrivener,

I too am into the second month of "going wide, permanently" and I have not yet regretted the decision.

The 'Zon page reads have dropped to almost nothing. But, I am starting to see traction on other platforms. (One sale is traction, right?)

Cheers,
R.C.

notthatamanda · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2021, 12:07:39 AM »

Were you able to get a direct account with B&N or have you not tried yet? I was never able to manage it, but if you were recently able to sign up I might try again.

R. C. · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2021, 12:28:06 AM »

Quote from: notthatamanda on February 17, 2021, 12:07:39 AM

Were you able to get a direct account with B&N or have you not tried yet? I was never able to manage it, but if you were recently able to sign up I might try again.

Amanda, not trying to steal the thread but I have input for your question.

I was able to create B&N and Kobo accounts. B&N let me pull over the Draft2Digital files into the "direct account." (Reminds me, I need to check that it worked correctly.)

Kobo would not "copy the files" over. They told me I had to remove them from D2D and manually add them to the direct account.

Cheers,
R.C.

notthatamanda · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2021, 12:43:08 AM »

Thanks RC. I was never able to get B&N to give me a direct account. I'm going to go try again now just for giggles.

DmGuay · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2021, 12:53:27 AM »

It should be easy to get a BNN account? I've had one for years with few issues.
Press.barnesandnoble.com

To the OP, what percentage of your monthly royalties were KU reads vs sales?

The decision to go wide seems like it'd be harder for those of us whose page reads account for 50 % or more of monthly income.

notthatamanda · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2021, 12:57:08 AM »

Thanks DM - They reject my bank information and attempts to contact them to work it out were completely fruitless. I just submitted the info again so it is pending approval again. This is the same bank info I've used at Amazon, D2D, Kobo, Google. B&N are the only ones who have a problem with it. I've tried various banks and accounts that I have. Maybe 56th time is the charm.

If it works I'll upload my next release there, if not, I don't give a #)($). I'm done with

over B&N's incompetence.

DmGuay · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2021, 01:24:25 AM »

Wow. That is weird!
I seem to recall it being finicky.

notthatamanda · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2021, 01:36:38 AM »

I got an email at 9:52 that my account was approved and then one at 10 that said my account was being reviewed. <head up one's own butt emoji>

The Masked Scrivener · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2021, 01:44:44 AM »

DmGuay, my sales have been weak as I had done no AMS. Page reads were the lesser of my royalties though, even when it was going well.

I have heard from a lot of indies that genre makes a difference when going wide. SciFi looks to be one of those that can go wide and succeed.

Hope that helps.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2021, 02:00:06 AM »

Quote from: The Masked Scrivener on February 17, 2021, 01:44:44 AM

SciFi looks to be one of those that can go wide and succeed.

It didn't work for me in 2017, early 2018. And I'm Space Opera.

That period taught me that if you can't get a Bookbub, going wide basically means starting again from scratch.

Sci-Fi should be doing well in KU. If it's not, I can't see going wide will do any better.

I'm very happy to be proved wrong though.

Simon Haynes · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2021, 02:37:12 AM »

Mil scifi and space opera are very strong in KU ... but then there's also masses of competition.

My ongoing mil SF series went wide in November last year. In the last 30 days I've sold the same number of copies of book 1 on Apple as all the Amazon stores combined. As for book 2, my Apple sales are 3 times those on Amazon.

Small numbers mind you. But I figured with all the Mil SF and Space Opera being mostly KU exclusive, wide readers won't have as much choice.

notthatamanda · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2021, 02:46:12 AM »

Masked - make sure you ask for the promotions tab on Kobo. As far as I know you still have to ask for that. I did well when I first started in Kobo in 2018 with first in series free promos. After that it fizzled.

Eric Thomson · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2021, 03:10:16 AM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on February 17, 2021, 02:00:06 AM

Quote from: The Masked Scrivener on February 17, 2021, 01:44:44 AM
SciFi looks to be one of those that can go wide and succeed.

It didn't work for me in 2017, early 2018. And I'm Space Opera.

That period taught me that if you can't get a Bookbub, going wide basically means starting again from scratch.

Sci-Fi should be doing well in KU. If it's not, I can't see going wide will do any better.

I'm very happy to be proved wrong though.

I do space opera and went wide 4 years ago when KU dropped off dramatically after the Zon f*cked with something. Nowadays, I earn more wide than through Amazon.

Lorri Moulton · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2021, 03:46:24 AM »

I went wide with everything, mainly to access the libraries. People need books and not everyone can afford to buy them. I'm also hoping this gives my books more exposure, which will help in the long run.
At least, that's the plan!

alhawke · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2021, 06:09:06 AM »

Wide here. But I'm still considering launching with a book in KU for the first 3months again. I still get page reads from a book I released a yr ago, and I got good visibility doing that (just had page reads today, even). And I've gotten some readers/fans from KU.

What's killing me now is whether I should move into more serial romance books that are short, 60-70k, rather than my current monstrous 105k word one. Shorter is cheaper for editing, hrs spent, etc. I don't know. But if I went with writing series books, Urban Fantasy, for example, that are short and around 70k each, I'd consider staying in KU.

R. C. · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2021, 06:38:52 AM »

Quote from: alhawke on February 17, 2021, 06:09:06 AM

Wide here. But I'm still considering launching with a book in KU for the first 3months again....

Wide also... The last book in my SciFi/Fantasy series is on the horizon. Do you think the KU 90 day lock has enough value for a launch?

Granted, my page reads dropped to almost nothing when I opted out of KU. I am not sure the exclusivity retains enough value for 90 days of not going wide.

Cheers,
R.C.

The Masked Scrivener · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2021, 09:14:29 AM »

I have heard the danger of doing some wide and some KU, even for a short time, is that you risk alienating potential readers. Those that pick up your book in KU, then find out the rest of your books are wide, feel those books are inaccessible and move on to another author. The same goes for wide readers that find books of yours only on KU.

Now, that was just an author's opinion, based on their experience, but they were a very successful wide romance author. They are also advocates for wide, so maybe their opinion is skewed. But I think the idea has merit.

Jeff Tanyard · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2021, 12:03:39 PM »

Quote from: The Masked Scrivener on February 16, 2021, 08:54:36 PM

Wish me luck and good fortune.

Good luck, and good fortune!

alhawke · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2021, 12:15:01 PM »

Quote from: R. C. on February 17, 2021, 06:38:52 AM

Quote from: alhawke on February 17, 2021, 06:09:06 AM
Wide here. But I'm still considering launching with a book in KU for the first 3months again....
Do you think the KU 90 day lock has enough value for a launch?

It's a consideration. As with everything here, it totally depends on your situation.

I had never published in KU, so it introduced me to a new audience. And being that it was the first book in the series, I didn't upset people regarding the other books--I think.

But, would I do it again? I'm not sure. For the epic fantasy I'm working on now, I don't think that genre sells as well with KU. So ... I probably won't. Like I said ^^, I think KU works really well with authors with multiple series, particularly Urban Fantasy. I'm still unsure with my upcoming book.

I can say that after I published in KU it was harder to get any traction wide. The book was no longer a "new" book.

The Masked Scrivener · « **Reply #20 on:** March 08, 2021, 03:52:29 PM »

Update

I have one book left in KU, and that will come out on March 20th. I'm hoping to have my books all loaded up on the other stores for release on March 22nd. I did some additional editing of book 1, changing the format to vellum, and updating all the blurbs.

The first draft of book 1 for the new series is written, and the rewrite begins tomorrow. I should release that next month, but that depends on how fast I can write book 2. I want to have a preorder for the next book in the series up before the release of the current book, and I don't do preorders until I have the pre-edited manuscript finished.

I'm getting excited the closer I get to going wide. I'll update this thread as I progress.

Simon Haynes · « **Reply #21 on:** March 08, 2021, 06:43:00 PM »

I have 4 left in and they drop out at the end of this month. Everything else is now wide.

I'm planning on applying for a Bookbub with a series where I've yet to write the third novel. (They're standalones, so it's not an issue.) I figure if I get a worldwide BB for book one, the motivation to write book 3 will be intense.

Lorri Moulton · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2021, 03:45:17 AM »

If you're going wide, you might want to check out the 'Wide for the Win' group on Facebook.

angela · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2021, 04:10:25 PM »

I know posts about declines in sales ore pagereads are tiresome, but... is it just my imagination, or have pagereads really tanked lately? I've never seen it this low, and I've been publishing since well before the first KUpocalypse.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2021, 04:31:08 PM »

Quote from: angela on March 09, 2021, 04:10:25 PM

I know posts about declines in sales ore pagereads are tiresome, but... is it just my imagination, or have pagereads really tanked lately? I've never seen it this low, and I've been publishing since well before the first KUpocalypse.

I think Amazon changed their algorithm again.

I saw a big drop not long ago, but my latest release was about normal for that series.

But the drop off after seems to accelerate with each new book.

I'm not doing any advertising, especially since my last attempt proved to be AMS ripping me off and ignoring my daily limit, but I've felt for a long time that the lack of an ad adds push down points to your books.

I'm finding there is a lot less tail to a release now, and even monthly releases are not often enough to keep up the momentum I achieved for most of 2020 with a 6 week schedule.

angela · « **Reply #25 on:** March 10, 2021, 02:27:02 AM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on March 09, 2021, 04:31:08 PM

Quote from: angela on March 09, 2021, 04:10:25 PM
I know posts about declines in sales ore pagereads are tiresome, but... is it just my imagination, or have pagereads really tanked lately? I've never seen it this low, and I've been publishing since well before the first KUpocalypse.

I think Amazon changed their algorithm again.

I saw a big drop not long ago, but my latest release was about normal for that series.

But the drop off after seems to accelerate with each new book.

I'm not doing any advertising, especially since my last attempt proved to be AMS ripping me off and ignoring my daily limit, but I've felt for a long time that the lack of an ad adds push down points to your books.

I'm finding there is a lot less tail to a release now, and even monthly releases are not often enough to keep up the momentum I achieved for most of 2020 with a 6 week schedule.

Currently, it's hard to know if it's algorithms, the way they count pages, or the pandemic.

I was all in KU last fall. Then I put my popular 12-book series wide for a bit, with a Bookbub on book 1. They ran my book in Fantasy rather than a mystery category, so it didn't do as well as it had in the past, but it did a little better on iTunes.

I cycle back and forth between KU and wide because I find that's the most profitable.

So, I went back into KU in February, and my sales plummeted, cannibalized by KU. More than usual, but not unexpected. However, unlike the past, there was no bump from KU. I'm now earning less on Amazon, in KU, than I was earning with sales alone on Amazon two months earlier. (Books are $4.99, 75-80k words.)

For the first time ever, I'll be taking that series out of KU just to stop losing money on Amazon, never mind the other platforms.

It's possible my niche (paranormal cozy) is overfished. But it's hard to believe it happened in 5 months when I've been in that genre for 5 years. Yes, it's been gradually getting more crowded, but this felt like an overnight change.

I have some wacky theories that perhaps a significant portion of the pagereads in the system (like a third or half of them even) could be fraud from clickfarms, and the difference is whether or not the clickfarms "read" your books as cover. My reason for thinking this is that it's always the pagereads that are so unpredictable and mystifying, whereas sales continue to be about what I expect.

The Masked Scrivener · « **Reply #26 on:** March 31, 2021, 07:57:45 AM »

Update: I'm wide.... sort of.

Book 1 of my series is wide on all platforms except Google, as they need time to review my book since it is the first time I've submitted. Quick run down on stores and how my experience was getting my books listed:

Amazon: been there, done that, I'm sure everyone is familiar.
Google: Easy to submit to, but there is the waiting period I mentioned above.
Apple: Took a lot of work to set up the vender account, didn't like using a separate website to submit the book, but uploading was simple enough.
Kobo: Went smoothly, except the submission form was clunky in my opinion. Their user interface could use an update as I felt it was more complicated than it needs to be.
BN: No complaints, but not impressed.
Smashwords: Not a fan. Since I'm not using them to distribute to other stores, I didn't like that the default was for that and I had to opt out of distribution.

Over all going wide wasn't as difficult as I expected. Yes, it will be interesting to see how I manage to keep track of sales channels and pay outs since I am direct to each retailer, but I don't see the need to give 10% of my earnings to a distributer, but that is just me.

Side story: I'm waiting until I get all five books, and the start of the new series, up wide before starting advertising. Set up ScribeCount to track sales, and saw that I had a sale on BN. Thank you NOOK reader! With that sale I now count myself as a professional wide indie author.

Lorri Moulton · « **Reply #27 on:** March 31, 2021, 08:38:34 AM »

I'm all in with wide, but I'm using D2D for everything but Amazon and Google. They do take a percentage, but I like that everything updates at once. If I start selling a LOT more books, I might try to go direct with some of the other major retailers.

One thing that surprised me is how much more "FREE" I feel since going wide. No more wondering if something is allowed or how much of a book I can post elsewhere.

I also decided to raise my prices recently. We'll see if it works, but I'm feeling pretty good about it!

Simon Haynes · « **Reply #28 on:** March 31, 2021, 04:13:03 PM »

One more day and the last four of my novels in KU drop out.

I just got an intl Bookbub on book one of the series which dropped out a month ago, so that was good timing/good planning. (My reason for dropping out of KU was to try for Bookbubs/promo stacks at regular intervals.)

LilyBLily · « **Reply #29 on:** March 31, 2021, 10:16:16 PM »

Quote from: Simon Haynes on March 31, 2021, 04:13:03 PM

One more day and the last four of my novels in KU drop out.

I just got an intl Bookbub on book one of the series which dropped out a month ago, so that was good timing/good planning. (My reason for dropping out of KU was to try for Bookbubs/promo stacks at regular intervals.)

When you do an international, do you manually change the international prices on Amazon? Or do you change all the prices on Amazon? Even for an international, isn't Amazon the big player? Or not?

Simon Haynes · « **Reply #30 on:** March 31, 2021, 10:35:54 PM »

I change all the prices for US and international. Spent an hour today booking 9-10 different promos (all but one for the US.)

The problem with that is that I can't apply for a US bookbub on the same title for 90+ days because of the 0 price now. But to be honest, at this stage I'm happy to be a support act. I'm guessing they get a lot of US-only deals, given the number of big-name authors and publishers promoted in the daily emails, and so filler for international subscribers probably comes in handy.

I do apply for US + international each time, because there's always a chance of a jackpot.

alhawke · « **Reply #31 on:** April 01, 2021, 08:48:50 AM »

Quote from: Tweek on April 01, 2021, 07:57:44 AM

Do people think internationals are worth it?

I did one international BB. The other two I was fortunate to land were both Intnl & US. You're not going to see the same numbers as with a US BB, for sure, but the visibility is still fantastic. It was worth it to me.

Simon Haynes · « **Reply #32 on:** April 03, 2021, 06:34:53 PM »

Quote from: Tweek on April 01, 2021, 07:57:44 AM

Quote from: Simon Haynes on March 31, 2021, 04:13:03 PM
One more day and the last four of my novels in KU drop out.

I just got an intl Bookbub on book one of the series which dropped out a month ago, so that was good timing/good planning. (My reason for dropping out of KU was to try for Bookbubs/promo stacks at regular intervals.)

Do people think internationals are worth it?

I've been offered one now, but I'm reluctant to accept. I had an international earlier this year. It was profitable. The tail lasted around 6-ish weeks. But the profit and tail were nothing compared to a US plus international. Quite frankly, there are other ways to make that amount of profit. Good use of click ads achieves the same dollar value profit-wise.

Based on what I'm hearing, it looks like BookBub are largely quarantining indies to international only. I'm still trying to come to grips with whether the internationals are worth it. Without the boost that comes from a US plus International, it seems like a lot of fuss for something I can achieve without BookBub.

Torn about what to do...

You're asking me if I would spend one dollar and make three or four back, and my answer is always going to be yes.

It's not so much that BB are quarantining indies, it's that US-based publishers are signing up for US-only deals (often, rights go to different publishers in different countries, so they can't do all markets). That leaves slots to fill, and I'm guessing Canadian/Aussie/UK/Indian publishers can't take them up because Bookbub lumps all four together in 'International only'. Aussie publishers won't hold the rights to UK/Canadian/Indian editions so they can't apply for intl BBs. Same for the others.

This leaves a nice opening for indies, and I will always muscle through with both elbows out whenever I can.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #33 on:** April 03, 2021, 07:30:08 PM »

Quote from: Tweek on April 03, 2021, 07:15:18 PM

I'll be honest, if BookBub are only offering international only deals, then that significantly lowers their value to me.

Completely negates them for me.

75% of my income comes from the US.

The one intl only BB I got proved very disappointing, but considering it ignored my primary market, it wasn't very surprising.

I'll never do another intl only one. No point.

notthatamanda · « **Reply #34 on:** April 04, 2021, 02:06:55 AM »

Good luck with your Bookbub Tweek.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #35 on:** April 04, 2021, 02:09:33 AM »

Quote from: notthatamanda on April 04, 2021, 02:06:55 AM

Good luck with your Bookbub Tweek.

What's a Bookbub Tweek?

Oh, there should be a comma in there.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #36 on:** April 04, 2021, 02:35:44 AM »

Quote from: Tweek on April 04, 2021, 02:26:32 AM

Quote from: TimothyEllis on April 04, 2021, 02:09:33 AM
Oh, there should be a common in there.

A 'common'?

I can't work out if you're being clever or autocorrect hates you!

Auto-correct hates me. Or I'm going senile.

But it does seem to only be happening here. Very odd. Third time in 2 days now.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #37 on:** April 04, 2021, 11:43:43 AM »

Quote from: Tweek on April 04, 2021, 05:03:23 AM

If you were senile you'd forget to log in.

More like I'd forget why I was logging in.

Logging in here is a habit. Habits remain even when you forget why.

Spelling correctioin in firefox was turned on.

Now it's off. I guess we'll see.

Simon Haynes · « **Reply #38 on:** April 05, 2021, 03:47:59 PM »

Quote from: Tweek on April 03, 2021, 07:15:18 PM

Why would the trads suddenly start taking over BookBub US slots that way? I had two full BookBubs last year within a few months of one another. But there appear to be almost none this year for anyone.

Not sure what you're asking. Are you asking why trads are getting bookbubs, or why I think they're taking over BB?

Every daily email I get now has about 3 trad pubbed and maybe 1 indie. Many of the trad pubbed are huge names, and every time I click on one it takes me to my amazon.com account where I'm not allowed to buy the deal because I live in Australia. (I use amazon.com for ebooks instead of amazon.com.au. Always have, not changing.) If I go to the same ASIN on amazon.com.au it's either not available or $17.99.

That tells me these trad pubs are filling the US-only BB slots, which is how I've worked out that there must be Intl-only slots going spare.

Look at my latest - I got accepted in 2 days and the Bookbub was 16 days after acceptance, which is a pretty short lead time.

Simon Haynes · « **Reply #39 on:** April 05, 2021, 03:49:28 PM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on April 03, 2021, 07:30:08 PM

Quote from: Tweek on April 03, 2021, 07:15:18 PM
I'll be honest, if BookBub are only offering international only deals, then that significantly lowers their value to me.

Completely negates them for me.

75% of my income comes from the US.

The one intl only BB I got proved very disappointing, but considering it ignored my primary market, it wasn't very surprising.

I'll never do another intl only one. No point.

Well yes, but if you want to increase your readership outside the US, promotions and ads are the only way to do it.

For a long time now my income has been split 50/50 between the US and UK, and I advertise to Aus and CA all the time.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #40 on:** April 05, 2021, 04:37:00 PM »

Quote from: Simon Haynes on April 05, 2021, 03:49:28 PM

I advertise to Aus and CA all the time.

Canada isn't even a blip on my BR reports.

Aus is about 4%.

How do you advertise to Aus?

PaulineMRoss · « **Reply #41 on:** April 05, 2021, 07:20:09 PM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on April 05, 2021, 04:37:00 PM

Canada isn't even a blip on my BR reports.
Aus is about 4%.
How do you advertise to Aus?

Same way as US - through Amazon ads. They do UK, AU and CA now, and I've got my US sales down to 60% as a result (used to be 75%). Non-US sales are way more stable, and less infested with content mills and the like.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #42 on:** April 05, 2021, 07:47:51 PM »

Quote from: PaulineMRoss on April 05, 2021, 07:20:09 PM

They do UK, AU and CA now,

Not that I can see.

I only have access to US.

Where do I find the others?

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #43 on:** April 05, 2021, 09:37:52 PM »

Where on the AMS Ad Dash do you specify a country as the target?

notthatamanda · « **Reply #44 on:** April 05, 2021, 11:46:39 PM »

You have to go through your AMS account for each country. Your way would be much more awesome.

From your bookshelf hit "promote and advertise", then "pick your marketplace". Marketplace=country

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #45 on:** April 05, 2021, 11:53:02 PM »

Quote from: notthatamanda on April 05, 2021, 11:46:39 PM

From your bookshelf hit "promote and advertise", then "pick your marketplace". Marketplace=country

Well there you go.

I NEVER go in that way. I direct link into the add mechanism.

Now of course it wants all my details again.

Something to do tomorrow.

notthatamanda · « **Reply #46 on:** April 05, 2021, 11:59:13 PM »

I'm having a "do it tomorrow" day and it's only 10AM here.

LilyBLily · « **Reply #47 on:** April 06, 2021, 03:33:07 AM »

Quote from: notthatamanda on April 05, 2021, 11:59:13 PM

I'm having a "do it tomorrow" day and it's only 10AM here.

R. C. · « **Reply #48 on:** April 13, 2021, 05:34:55 AM »

Well, I posted in February (above) about not regretting my experiment in "going wide".

I began the process of going wide in Oct (Q4 2020), full-on in Jan (Q1 2021) and now... the results are in.

I'll cut to the chase: I am going back to KU.

The big three decision points are:

Without KU, AMS ADs Get No Respect. - To achieve impressions, I must constantly raise bids. Timing and market forces change but the same strategies, which worked for months, are no longer successful. The 'Zon bots definitely have a bias.
Too Much Effort - I do not mind the marketing/business aspect of being self-published. However, the ROI of the LOE for wide is non-existent. (See: Crappy Business Acronyms 101).
KU Promotions Work - When coupled with Bookbub, WrittenWord, and other "external" adverting, the KU promotions are effective.

There are many other factors, but net-net: Without a large following, wide is a twenty miles of bad rode and no assurance of navigating successfully.

Happy to provide more detail if requested.

Cheers,
R.C.

Eric Thomson · « **Reply #49 on:** April 13, 2021, 06:07:17 AM »

In my experience, one of the factors at play is that gaining traction wide takes more than a few months. I've been all out of KU for the last four years and it took me over a year before wide revenues were reliably replacing the KU income I had before going wide.

News:

Author Topic: I'm Going Wide in 2021 (Read 27366 times)